If he dies he dies because you will lose and I muss break you
Half an hour in and this really doesn't feel like a Rocky film. What the hell is up with the robot and James Brown? I have loved the first three movies more than I expected. 3 might actually be one of my favourite films ever. Really hope this gets better.
Eh. It was okay. It was fine. Will I ever watch this again instead of the original? Hell no. Gimme that robot or give me NUTHIN
There's a lot I want to say about this film, but let me get my first point out there quick... they should be using this film as teaching material in film schools. When this film was first announced as the "ultimate director's cut" I have to admit, I cringed a little; but having seen it, I cannot think of a single other director's cut which has done so much with so little. In spite of the claim of 40 new minutes, the majority of that is of fight sequences and alternate shots, and there's probably only about 15 minutes of new story telling footage available. And yet it feels like a completely different movie, and from my perspective a far superior one.
Regardless of your opinion on the movie, from a technical standpoint it is edited infinitely better than the theatrical cut. It is a masterclass in pacing and ill try to give a couple of examples why. Regardless of your personal preference of cut (theatrical vs directors) and the included/excluded content, what is undeniable is that the directors cut is put together in a far superior manner. The biggest trade-off is that the time spent on fight choreography are reduced, with the time gained given to character interactions between the rounds which contribute directly to the stories being told. And in spite of the fights being a little shorter, they benefit from tighter choreography which allow for both fights to to tell their own mini story. Additionally, the themes in this director's cut are much more accessible (in that they exist as themes and not throwaway lines). They traded the literal robot for a metaphor on the robotic machine of the collective vs the individualism and uniqueness of man; the typical ideas of East vs West play out much more gracefully this way. The metaphorical transition from man into machine and machine into man for the two competitors in their own perspectives during the final fight plays into the theme delightfully.
Outside of the story itself, one of the biggest criticisms of the theatrical cut was that from the midpoint on it felt like a race to the finish. The film was never allowed to breathe in the second and third acts. I'm happy to say that the restructuring fixes this problem for the most part. A little more time spent in the changing room before the fight, and the extra time between rounds gives the viewer more to chew on than passively watching a fight play out. That said, I wish there was one more scene in the second act somewhere, perhaps between the two training montages or even after them before they go to the arena (although its not really necessary). This director's cut feels cinematic, where the original theatrical cut feels like it was made for TV. This could be a result of the wider aspect ratio of 2.35:1, which is a curious choice considering the first three Rocky movies all make use of a taller 1.85:1 aspect ratio. I don't think it was a necessary change, but the shots are all framed well so it doesn't feel like there is any missing information from the screen.
Personally, I much prefer this less goofy director's cut. I grew up with the Rocky movies, and loved the goofiness of Rocky IV as a child. Those incapable of growing up and escaping the nostalgia trap will still most likely prefer the theatrical cut. But those who have embraced adulthood and love the first three movies that leaned heavily on the drama and mythological story telling, will be delighted that they finally have a sequel which deserves to stand alongside them. I am so happy for Sylvester Stallone who can finally put this 36 year ghost to rest and enjoy the fruits of his labour, whilst also offering a masterclass to young aspiring film editors in this appropriately named ULTIMATE Director's Cut.
With Rocky IV the franchise fully embraces the cheesy action motif and does so brilliantly. When Soviet boxer Ivan Drago comes to America Apollo Creed challenges him to an exhibition match, but when it ends in tragedy Rocky must risk everything to avenge Creed. Dolph Lundgren gives an excellent performance as Drago; making him one on the most iconic villains of the franchise. And the slick, stylized montages (which have become a staple of the series) have never been done better. Watching the montage of Rocky and Drago training (set to “Heart’s On Fire”), it’s hard not to get fired up. Plus, the boxing scenes themselves are outstanding. Rocky verses the Russians was a natural place to take the series in the mid-80s, and Rocky IV stands as a quintessential Cold War ‘80s action film.
Imperialist chant in the Reagan administration.
The run times of the Rocky films have an interesting trajectory, with the first and second being approximately 2 hours, but the third cutting 20 minutes and the fourth cutting another 10, down to an incredibly lean 90 minutes. What makes that even crazier, is that each Rocky sequel (up to the fourth anyway, haven't watched the rest yet) has opened with 3-5 minutes that is directly lifted from the previous movie. On top of that, this entry has no less than 3 extended montages that amount to entire music videos, eating up another 15 minutes of run time. Moral of the story is, there isn't much meat on these bones. The story is superficial and rushed and, as with Rocky III, what little dialogue there is, is generally melodramatic and on the nose. The US/Soviet angle is the only unique element, but it's as surface level as the rest of the film, though Dolph Lundgren does deserve some props as the suitably intimidating Ivan Drago.
Ironically, Rocky IV proves that the fourth movie in a series can sometimes be the best. It takes the iconic Rocky Balboa to new heights. This film is filled with some intense moments and an emotionally charged storyline. It may have taken the series to its peak, making it a standout in the Rocky saga.
There's a lot I want to say about this film, but let me get my first point out there quick... they should be using this film as teaching material in film schools. When this film was first announced as the "ultimate director's cut" I have to admit, I cringed a little; but having seen it, I cannot think of a single other director's cut which has done so much with so little. In spite of the claim of 40 new minutes, the majority of that is of fight sequences and alternate shots, and there's probably only about 15 minutes of new story telling footage available. And yet it feels like a completely different movie, and from my perspective a far superior one.
Regardless of your opinion on the movie, from a technical standpoint it is edited infinitely better than the theatrical cut. It is a masterclass in pacing and ill try to give a couple of examples why. Regardless of your personal preference of cut (theatrical vs directors) and the included/excluded content, what is undeniable is that the directors cut is put together in a far superior manner. The biggest trade-off is that the time spent on fight choreography are reduced, with the time gained given to character interactions between the rounds which contribute directly to the stories being told. And in spite of the fights being a little shorter, they benefit from tighter choreography which allow for both fights to to tell their own mini story. Additionally, the themes in this director's cut are much more accessible (in that they exist as themes and not throwaway lines). They traded the literal robot for a metaphor on the robotic machine of the collective vs the individualism and uniqueness of man; the typical ideas of East vs West play out much more gracefully this way. The metaphorical transition from man into machine and machine into man for the two competitors in their own perspectives during the final fight plays into the theme delightfully.
Outside of the story itself, one of the biggest criticisms of the theatrical cut was that from the midpoint on it felt like a race to the finish. The film was never allowed to breathe in the second and third acts. I'm happy to say that the restructuring fixes this problem for the most part. A little more time spent in the changing room before the fight, and the extra time between rounds gives the viewer more to chew on than passively watching a fight play out. That said, I wish there was one more scene in the second act somewhere, perhaps between the two training montages or even after them before they go to the arena (although its not really necessary). This director's cut feels cinematic, where the original theatrical cut feels like it was made for TV. This could be a result of the wider aspect ratio of 2.35:1, which is a curious choice considering the first three Rocky movies all make use of a taller 1.85:1 aspect ratio. I don't think it was a necessary change, but the shots are all framed well so it doesn't feel like there is any missing information from the screen.
Personally, I much prefer this less goofy director's cut. I grew up with the Rocky movies, and loved the goofiness of Rocky IV as a child. Those incapable of growing up and escaping the nostalgia trap will still most likely prefer the theatrical cut. But those who have embraced adulthood and love the first three movies that leaned heavily on the drama and mythological story telling, will be delighted that they finally have a sequel which deserves to stand alongside them. I am so happy for Sylvester Stallone who can finally put this 36 year ghost to rest and enjoy the fruits of his labour, whilst also offering a masterclass to young aspiring film editors in this appropriately named ULTIMATE Director's Cut.
Following up with what made III succeed, IV gets even more extreme with the villain and the corresponding stakes. While the plot is once again a step back from what the original achieved, this might be the most rewatchable of any of the Rocky films! Highly enjoyable and memorable!
Rating: 3.5/5 - 8/10 - Would Recommend
Watched the Rocky vs Drago cut to compare to the original. An interesting attempt to slot a ridiculous movie back into the relative grounded tone of the earlier films, it holds the most value as an educational tool on editing and how much changes as small as a line and as big as new or removed scenes change a film than as a story in of itself.
The first act is the most interesting for how it centers Apollo, jettisoning most of the Balboa family and hijinks to focus instead on his desperate need to return to the world he thrives in. They recontexualize his drive from jingoistic bluster and arrogance to a compulsion he can’t stop even if he wanted to. The fight is what’s given him meaning all his life, and it’s how he’ll end it, something he seems to know deep down. There’s a sort of dread hanging overhead of the inevitable ending. Weathers kills it, especially in his final plea to Rocky, raw and close to tears.
After his death, the film snaps back to Rocky and the film it always was. It can’t escape the jingoism for long. It can drop hints of characterization for Drago, but not enough to overcome it. It still devolves into a string of montages and a campy speech. Black and white flashbacks don’t suddenly lend the proceedings gravitas. Some characters, like Adrian, are better served by changes. Others, like Drago’s wife, are left with less. But at least there’s no robot. Rocky IV still ultimately has the most value as a Creed prologue, and in that sense, this cut delivers that better. But it’s still the same movie at heart. People can change, but this movie can’t.
Rocky Vs Drago: 2.5
Original cut: 2
Fair 4th film. Would have rather seen a different plot with the continuation of Rocky and Apollo’s relationship like them opening up their own gym but instead you get another new foe and they go about taking him out together. Until things go wrong and Rocky has to dig deep which brings up a lot of the past and it kind of tied things together well.
This version is infinitely better than the theatrical cut, and I'm pretty surprised. This is almost a new film. We get to see more of Drago's point of view, which is a huge plus. Fewer montage scenes, but the good ones are kept in. The film transfer is incredible. Right before the big fight at the end, on the 4k transfer you can see every single bead of sweat on Drago's face.
Most of the time when I see a director's cut you get one or two extended scenes that have little consequence and don't change the flow of the film at all, and/or that new footage looks like it was pulled out of the bottom of a dungeon so the quality is horrible. None of that is true with this cut. I urge any fan of the Rocky franchise to watch this. It's so damn good.
With "Rocky IV," the series had left the realm of reality by the mid-1980s. Really everything is exaggerated here: the fights, the training montage, the physical fitness of the boxers, the chauvinism, as well as the political significance of a single boxing match. Rocky is more superhero than athlete here. And even though Dolph Lundgren as Ivan Drago is a truly iconic opponent, there's hardly anything human about him. He seems more like a typical comic book villain. But it's precisely because the film is so ridiculous in many places that it works particularly well for me. It may not be the Oscar fare that the first film is, but this sequel is definitely entertaining in its megalomania. Even if Paulie and that really stupid robot are massively annoying, "Rocky IV" has truly earned its cult status.
Paulie’s robot is cut out which is a good thing but that is about the only humor the movie had, if you think about it. What’s left is pure adrenaline and no nonsense.
Maybe it’s because I’m a GenX but I preferred the original, this version is good certainly but I dunno, something got lost in the translation.
Well, well, well... Where the hell do you start with this one?
Let's get the big question out of the way first - was it worth the effort? Yes. Definitely.
Is it better than the original? Probably. But it's only marginal.
What does it do to the franchise...? Let's save that til the end.
The problem Stallone was always going to have was adding more into the montage-laden original that made sense, and breaking apart the final half which was basically music and fighting. He partially succeeds on the first and fails ultimately on the second.
Let's get into some specifics (and spoilers) ...
The common thread I can tie together as to how the new cut struggles is the lack of words. The script was already threadbare. And in the second half, it is completely perfunctory. When there are more than just words for the sake of words, there is something funny and long-winded like Paulie falling in the snow or professing his admiration to Rocky. Keeping some of that previous dialogue might have helped make it feel less sparse.
And now to the unanswered question... What does it do for the franchise?
It feels more like a natural successor to Rocky III and more distant to Rocky V. It fits slightly better within the franchise and I would reluctantly substitute this version into the anthology.
Here's the rub though...
I think the ultimate version is still out in the ether. Adding back some elements of the original into the area around 20-45 minutes could give it some breathing room. Breaking the training montage out definitively could help with pacing and tension, and then cutting the fight down to a few key pieces could change the scope more to revenge and the futility at the Cold War moreso to fit the final speech - or keep the fight as is and ditch the speech entirely...
I'd like to see Stallone recut all the Rocky films just to have an excuse to rewatch them all. I'm not mad at this and I'm not unhappy at the results. It's almost impossible to turn a finished film into a 10 so we can't be unhappy he didn't succeed.
And ultimately, I'd rather he tried than didn't.
7/10
Thank you, Sly. It was a worthy effort and a worthwhile exercise.
Rocky loses a friend and comes to grips by pulverizing meat, grabbing a microphone and almost single-handedly winning the Cold War, all in a breezy ninety minutes.
Seems like there’s a great storytelling opportunity in the death of someone as meaningful as Apollo Creed, a poignant moment that would resonate in Rocky himself and demand a pivot. Here's a fighter whose career-long strategy (as we've seen in the three preceding movies) has been to wear opponents out with his face before firing back; not exactly a recipe for longevity. He's on top of the world, a longtime champion, but he's just watched a close confidant and lasting rival, someone who repeatedly took him to the limit both inside and outside the ring, systematically annihilated by a bigger, stronger, faster, younger fighter.
Rocky and Apollo went thirty rounds over the course of their two title fights, countless more during private sparring sessions, and this new threat literally ended him in a round and some change. That kind of experience has to affect a man, to demand a drastic change, whether it means rethinking his style to cope with life as an older athlete or to see the folly of chasing eternal youth and hanging up the gloves entirely. Rocky chooses neither: instead, he demands revenge, climbs a mountain, chops wood and... persists, after allowing the bad man to beat him about the face for a dozen rounds. It's a sad example of how far the franchise has slipped from its original character: those meaningful nuances and hard realities were essential ingredients in the potent boil of the first film.
Rocky in the 80s, though, is a flag-draped superhero, almost unrecognizable in his egregiously ballooned physique. He's Hulk Hogan and Superman all rolled into one, a hollow action figure of a mannequin without a meaningful thought in his head beyond "everyone can change." Everyone except Rocky himself, of course, who changes nothing more than the scenery behind his customary pop-rock training montages. Of which there are many. Egregiously many. Someone did the research, and they total approximately one-third of the film's running time, which feels about right.
Dolph Lundgren is legendary and effective as the intimidating Soviet monster, Ivan Drago. The soundtrack is an essential counterpart, swelling and building in all the right spots for a sharp emotional burst. There's plenty to like, if you're just looking to plug your ears and indulge in some light, meaningless action movie nonsense. It's another bland extension of the first movies, though, and by continuing to churn out sequels like this one, Stallone hurts the whole brand. A total fluff piece that can't escape its own inherent contradictions.
This movie bleeds red, white and blue, baby!
Fun movie was top grossing Rocky movie but a step down from 3. Montages dominate the film, but that keeps it running at a quick pace that was needed in some of the previous films.
Being true to my task of ranking each Rocky based on a rewatch, this one must be ranked as probably the worst 'Rocky'. It's extremely untrue to the series so far and works much better as a standalone 80s action film.
Why?
The ridiculously brutal fighting of III is ramped up to a Spinal Tap 11 here and it is, at best, uncomfortable viewing - and at worst, sickening.
But most of the movie is designed to detach you from reality with endless (admittedly great) songs and montages. For a 90 minute movie, at least 30 minutes is reused footage I'd say.
Ask most people what their favourite Rocky is and it's likely to be this one... Sadly that's because it's mindless music and action. It is actually the most un-Rocky and should have been reigned in for its 80s excesses.
So bad is the lack of believability that it has skewed the whole Rocky arc into dangerous territory that it is only the later Rocky Balboa and Creed that have managed to reign back even 10% of the damage.
It is a victim of the Cold War obsession that 80s American culture had. It is a sleight to Stallone that he thought he could impact the world using Rocky and Rambo - his ego must have been rampant during that decade.
My final word. Stallone is currently re-editing this film for a re-release... Done right that could flatter the arc of the Rocky saga and bring this movie back into line with reality in a way that the latter movies rightly deserve. He's spoken of taking the robot out and that bodes well that a fully recut version losing some of the cartoon violence in the fight as well as lengthening out the drama portion, could render a solid film from the carcass of this.
5.75/10 as a Rocky film.
It worked in the 80s. It doesn't work today.
The whole second act feels like one long montage. Traveling and training and growing a beard. Ivan Drago is probably the best villain of the series. Rocky gets to be all patriotic and try and end the cold war.
Shout by DearbhlaVIP 6BlockedParent2019-07-12T19:24:20Z
Oh Rocky IV, the worst of the Rocky films in some ways. But also the most Rocky in others. Also, the film that is pretty much all montage. I mean, how many montages can one film take? Rocky IV certainly pushes the envelope there.
It is a bad film. I don’t think I could argue otherwise.
But, then again, Rocky. So I gotta love it, at least a little.