Everything Andrew Phillips said above (or below idk) me with the following addition:
So that was the trauma? The big deal? Geez, I guess I should have gone insane from my trauma's ages ago... And those aren't even that bad in comparison to other people's.
I did enjoy the fact this Spock -whose still not Spock- pretty much told Bernham she isn't all that... I'm sure it won't last long but I enjoyed the moment.
Couldn't be bothered to recreate the few scenes from the Cage with the old uniforms huh. I guess that was too much to ask, especially since they couldn't be bothered with the basics of Trek and it's history/legacy.
All in all I THINK this was the best episode that has been aired from all the seasons to date, which isn't saying much. It showed a very small glimpse what could have been if more effort, love and a lack of agenda was taken with the critically acclaimed and beloved source material.
this show is all over the place no consistency, constantly trying to tie old and new together, and not doing a good job of it.
Flashbacks, and history lessons, are only adding to the confusion
It seems that everything they tried to achieve this season (but failed miserably for the most part) has finally come together in this episode. This was genuinely intriguing, well acted with solid dialogue thought. And so freaking beautifully filmed... I wanted to make a joke about them trying to please "fans" by inserting original St episodes at the start of the new episode, but this was in fact very well done. More of this please
I found this episode delightful.
I know, technobabble and suspension of disbelief, but starfleet would not sanitize their SQL queries, really?!
[6.1/10] When we saw the NCC 1701 pop-up at the end of Discovery’s first season, I was excited but concerned. There would, inevitably, be a momentary thrill to seeing the crew of the famed Enterprise interact with the crew of the Discovery. And, in fact, Anson Mount’s Captain Pike has been a shot in the arm for Discovery’s second season, filling in the space that Lorca occupied on the show without feeling like a mere replacement.
But it portended the problem that all prequels and sequels seem to run aground on at some point – trying to harken back to what came before in a way that feels hollow and even a bit cheap. “If Memory Serves” is as much a sequel to “The Menagerie” or “The Cage”, as much an installment trying to become a conduit for the audience’s preexisting feelings about the character of Spock, as it is telling its own new, unique, and definitive story for this chapter of Star Trek history.
Don’t get me wrong, Discovery does try to advance its own projects here. It uses the near deus ex machina of the Talosians’ abilities to not only create stakes for what’s at risk with the red angel situation, to explain what happened to Spock, and to pull the curtain back on the familial estrangement and strife between Burnham and Spock that’s been shoved into a mystery box all season.
Some of it isn’t bad! The hinted idea that the Red Angel has witnessed events that would destroy all life in Federation space, and is now traveling to the past to try to avert that fate, is an appropriately stakes-heavy and sci-fi wacky premise for Star Trek. The fact that it has made Spock unstuck in time and straining to get his mental bearings using either logic or emotion is an interesting character beat. And even the idea of Spock being bitter at a sibling because at the same time his mother stopped feeding his human side, that new sibling received her warmth and love is an emotionally compelling one.
But so much of how Discovery tries to get there is on the backs of preestablished parts of the franchise it has only barest, most contorted connections to. I am not a continuity hound, and I can 100% forgive the awkwardness of a “previously on” segment that plainly features different actors, a different aesthetic, and a different tone right before we dive into Discovery’s five-decades-later follow-up. But too much of what “If Memory Serves” does depends on trying to channel the weight and meaning of past events, and too often it falls woefully short.
I will start with the most basic and most unavoidable crack in the armor here – this does not feel like Spock. It’s one thing to reimagine Pike the one-episode wonder. But Spock is arguably the definitive character in all of Star Trek. Trying to harness so much of the character’s complicated family history, past encounters with the Talosians, and general personality and psyche without nailing that connection between the performer on our screen’s now and Leonard Nimoy in 1966 makes the whole thing feel hollow.
Discovery is going for a big lift here. It wants to position its main character as key to who Spock became. It wants to posit a deeply-felt personal history between them. It wants to do that to legitimize its take on Spock and to heighten the importance of Burnham. And it’s just too much. I don’t mind that Burnham is Spock’s adopted sister. (Lord knows it wasn’t the first time Star Trek pulled a long lost sibling out of the ether). Still, Discovery wants to retcon 50 years of arguably the most developed and examined character in the franchise to anchor it around our current hero du jour.
You would have to absolutely nail the characters both old and new, and fold things into the continuity seamlessly to pull that off, and that is an ask Discovery has yet to prove itself capable of, especially not here. There’s some wiggle room from the fact that this is a mentally disturbed, younger, and a little looser Spock than the one who shared Kirk’s five year mission. And yet this Spock can’t help but feeling like a pale, not-quite-right approximation of his predecessor (and, I guess, successor?). And the involvement of the Talosians comes off like convenient fan service, there to coast on the good will and impact of events past rather than building on them,
The reveal of Burnham trying to be cruel to be kind to her little brother, to protect him, and it spurring Spock to abandon his human side, is particularly unsatisfying. Again, it feels like too much of a retcon, but that’s not the only flaw. It’s hard to swallow because it tries to play the significance of a relationship that we’ve only heard talked about, and never really witnessed or even mentioned elsewhere. It too seems too cute in classic Spock references, right down to “half-breed” being used as an unforgivable insult. And it falls victim to the problem that hobbles even less-ambitious Discovery episodes – the ponderous, unnatural, stilted conversations that everyone has about everything.
As I’ve mentioned before, the severity, the soap opera-level melodrama, the declarative and exposition-heavy lines uttered by nearly everyone just sink the show’s projects before they even get out of dock. The ostensibly bad blood and heavy history-laden conversations between Burnham and Spock lack the shorthand or relatability to make them land. The stage-y, Lifetime channel-esque conversations between Stamets and Culbert utterly wreck a legitimately interesting plot and character study. And the idiocy of a Battlestar Galactica-esque “let them fight to work this out” scenario is heightened by emotionally expository shouts from Culbert and Tyler as they lock horns. There are a lot of problems in “If Memory Serves” that come from broad story choices that puts the show in a difficult spot, but some of the biggest weaknesses here come from the same kind of heavy-handed writing and wooden dialogue that would wound any episode of any show regardless of subject matter.
Oddly enough, the only part of this episode that manages to surpass all of this is the meeting between Pike and Vena, because it builds on, rather than backfills, the continuity, and because the two performers at the center of it manage to sell the weight of the reunion. The reveal that the Talosians have given Vena a substitute Pike after “The Cage” to keep her happy is the right kind of humane but tragic. These moments are brief enough that they don’t try to do too much or overstay their welcome. The interactions between Vena and Pike are reluctant but soulful, with the performers creating that emotional shorthand that’s missing between Burnham and Spock. And there is added weight, tragedy, and hope to these knowing not only where these characters have been and where they’re headed.
If only “If Memory Serves” could accomplish the same elsewhere. There was always going to be trouble trying to set a show made in 2019 ten years prior to the events of a show made in 1966, but most of it I can forgive. It’s a little odd that the Talosians and the tech look different, or that we have new actors in familiar roles, or that there are long lost siblings we never heard of. But kept on the edges of the core of Star Trek -- its most major characters, events, and stories -- Discovery had the space to carve out its own identity and chart its own path, getting a boost from its proximity to the familiar without getting sucked into it.
That safe distance ended here. Now we are deep into revisiting one of the most iconic stories in Trek history. Now are delving deep into the psychology and history of arguably the franchise’s most definitive characters. Now we are inserting these awkwardly-fitting characters and narratives into what’s already been established, and maybe even sacrosanct to Star Trek with hardly even a fig leaf or handwave to justify it. I can appreciate Discovery as its own thing, carrying on a tradition without needing to adhere strictly to the continuity of what’s already known to the audience. But I can’t appreciate when it injects itself into the heart of those familiar places, tries to invoke that same emotional ballast and good will from what’s come before, and ends up exposing how far away it is from those things in the process.
I have given up pointing out what I like or don't like about this show because ultimately it serves no purpose. I have my opinion, others have theirs and that is OK. But does anyone really thing the "Goodbye Spock" joke was funny ?
GET RID OF THAT ANNOYING LENSFLARING !!!!
Hmm. I don't get the enthusiasm for this episode.
There is extremely little relevant material for the greater story arc. We already knew about as much about the red angle, the only new information is that somehow life on several planets would end. Wow!
Considering this story deficiency, the plot is shockingly bloated, feels very 'constructed' and is often enough illogical. I won't bore you with details why it was completely unnecessary to travel to Talos, when simply sharing experiences was enough to heal Spock. Or how disappointing and shallow the Spock-Michael interaction was. Or how the communication with Pike could have been far more efficient, if they hadn't used Vina and her mastery in missing the point.
The short trek episode
The complete story to Saru getting into starfleet was just awesome really....really Really good and I would definitely like to see more of those also them serving as prequels is so clever and definitely was a very very welcomed back story not just to be told about it but to actually see it was amazing.
This episode was definitely a strong 9/10
This Masterpiece of a show 10+/10
9/10
THIS EPISODE WAS SUPERB NEAR ENOUGH PERFECT, THINGS HAVE GOT VERY REAL VERY QUICKLY. I LOVED THE BEGINNING, HOW AMAZING AND AWESOME WAS THAT.
HAVING MELISSA IN THIS EPISODE WAS AN ABSOLUTE TREAT, SPOCK AND MICHAEL WE'RE PHENOMENAL ALSO
AND PIKE IS KNOCKING
IT OUT THE BALL PARK AS CAPTAIN,
HE'S SO AWESOME AMAZING.
THIS EPISODE,
HELLA GOOD,
THIS SHOW IS THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING AND IS DEFINITELY THE BEST
TREK EVER CREATED,
SPEC-FRICKIN-TACULAR
PERFECT...JUST..PERFECT.
THIS WAS DEFINITELY THE BEST EPISODE OF S2 BUT THAT BEING SAID THIS PHENOMENAL SHOW DOESN'T HAVE ONE WEAK EPISODE.
STAR TREK DISCOVERY CAN DO NO WRONG.
X FINAL THOUGHT:
I LOVED THE FIRST HALF OF THIS SEASON
THE WAY IT'S MOVED EVERYTHING INTO PLACE AND NOW THAT PART IS TAKEN CARE OF THINGS ARE ABOUT TO GET NAUGHTY...REAL NAUGHTY AND I'M HERE FOR EVERY SECOND OF IT BECAUSE STAR TREK DISCOVERY IS A SPECIAL SPECIAL SHOW AND IT'S NOT JUST THE BEST TREK EVER
CREATED IT'S ONE OF THE BEST SHOWS EVER CREATED, UP THERE
IN THE TOP 3 FOR THE BEST
EVER SHOW
SUPERNATURAL
LOST
STAR TREK DISCOVERY
(We are about to jump into the most
epic most awesome amazing
jaw-dropping trek ever for the finish of this season:
"HIT IT"
First of all, that "Previously On..." segment was terrible. I get that they needed to touch on it for viewers who aren't Trekkies / long term fans of the show, but it was so badly done.
Generally, I've enjoyed this show's more jovial notes (e.g. I really enjoy Tilly's goofiness and think Tig Notaro's addition to the cast was a great left-field choice) but in this episode it definitely felt like the attempts at humour either fell flat or were needlessly shoehorned in. The lowpoint was definitely the "Goodbye, Spock" moment - it was cheesy but also not tonally in-keeping for where Burnham and Spock were in their relationship.
I'm really pleased Hugh is back this season (I thought Wilson Cruz was probably the highlight of this episode with his portrayal of Hugh's struggling to get his head around being back from the dead) but not just back without any baggage - certainly makes it more interesting going forward.
Also, I don't know whether it's just me but there seemed to be a higher than usual amount of unnecessary lens flares this episode; it was quite distracting.
Overall, I found this episode a bit of a tonal mess. Some scenes were great (Melissa George was great as per) but others fell flat and were either plagued by weak banter/dialogue or ropey acting, e.g. that early scene with the female Vulcan from Starfleet Comman talking with Leland and Giorgio. I've been enjoying this season as much as the first, so hopefully the show will course-correct next episode.
Pretty decent episode, really enjoying Anson Mount more and more as Pike.
An anchor on which to base your world
This series absolutely rocks. This episode is the best, so clever and a perfect example of how do to science fiction right. "Where I come from, the one holding the phaser gets to ask the questions". Just. Flipping. Excellent.
I love the episode, but I really not so engaged with Michael... I don't like her.
In the other hand, the story plot is good but there were some mistakes!
The only reason why I gave it 9 is the historical introduction <3
So lovely to see Melissa George on a show again.
Borrowed gravitas cannot redeem this unmitigated disaster-piece.
Also..that's not how the transporter works (in Han Solo's voice)
Shout by anthoney65BlockedParent2019-03-08T19:26:27Z
I like this episode for the most part. It's probably my second favorite this season. I wasn't expecting the "previously on" and I found it clever and nostalgic. The whole visit to Talos IV fit nicely without overly messing with canon.
I am being to believe that the red angel may be Michael. I hope not that would be overly circular. I'm still hoping that Discovery ends with the angel erasing Michael from the timeline. It's not because I don't like the character but it will clean up the timeline they've been playing fast and lose with.
Big shock! I liked the original bulb heads better than the new ones. Their heads looked fragile. Skin pale enough to see the veins. Like a really pale girl I once knew.