That scene with Bortus at the council...I felt his delivery there and for a character who is not really emotional....that one moved me. I'm not crying, you're crying.
Another amazingly well done episode. The pacing was perfect. Slow parts, fast parts, drama, action. Everything was well balanced.
And Klyden returns! He is such a great character. So easy to hate, but so much more complicated. There were glimpses in previous episodes of his internal struggle. We finally get to see the walls broken down. Hopefully, we get to see more of Klyden now that he has realized the error of his beliefs and has opened up to Grayson. It really was a touching moment at the end.
And Dolly! I never would have pegged her for a cameo on the Orville, but she is wonderful as always. I loved reading about how they filmed the scene twice. Once on set and once in Dolly's sound stage so they could get around potential COVID exposures. Amazing!
I do have to wonder, though. They appear to have left the Moclan collaborator high and dry. If Topa really did give the name of the collaborator, nothing appears to have been done to help him. If she didn't actually give the name and lied to the Moclans, then they left the the audience without resolution. A very big complaint considering the rest of the episode was finely crafted. This is a major screwup to not spend 30 seconds to resolve this in this episode.
Sad to say this is the episode where they jumped the shark - All filler no killer
The new direction is good but finding the past 2 episodes really…tame. I enjoy sci-fi for the adventure, recently its been a bit fluffy. Prefer some drama and thrill.
The Orville keeps doing it. An expected conclusion to an earlier episode (5) and done with taste. They could've gone quite cheesy and more cringy, but they didn't. The writer did a good job with substance, not cringe.
The guest appearance was a giggle, and I felt this was a kind of a nose flick toward a Star Trek Discovery episode having the most definite cringiest guest appearance a show could ever put on any Sci Fi show, unless of course you're talking about Twilight Zone, or probably more appropriately, Creep Show. Then again it does fit on STD.
This episode does run long nearer to a movie length but it is appropriate given the content being covered. They could've made this a two part show but I didn't care as it wasn't filled with anything that didn't push the story along. I'm glad shows are beginning to see and give the opportunity to tell the story outside of the 'prescibed time frame', and let 'creativity' and 'story' be a Star in the show too.
The conclusion was especially touching and in this case what we hoped or predicted to come about, did.
Also there was a lot of Adrianne Palicki in this episode and who can argue against that honey. Yeah, I have a crush, so what. : )
Cast, Crew, Writers another wonderful job. If it was up to me I'd green light The Orville for seasons 4 and 5 now.
I honestly have no idea how they're pulling off a season that's this consistently good, episode after episode. Hulu/Disney better renew this show!
It's a very good episode but I wish it would have come at a later time. Maybe even next season. But with a fourth season still not confirmed and all but given I think they wanted to set some things straight.
At almost one and a half hours this is practically a double episode and I must say that this was the first time I thought it was a bit too long. The first half was OK. I was really dissapointed by Haveena's decisions. Her motives might've been honorable but I was totally with Ed when he told her what he thought about it. What follows was a predictable way the story unfolded. I'm not sure where they wanted to go with the hinted possible romance between Kelly and Bortus. Especially since they already threw a wrench in it at the end.
Everything really picks up at around the time when Gordon speaks up and calls out the Moclans for what they are. What follows are some powerfull scenes f.e. when Bortus adresses the Council as a father who's child has been abducted and tortured. Those were some hard to swallow scenes seeing Topa being tortured (kudos to Imani Pullum) and MacFarlane once again shows he's not shy to go there if it helps the plot. And I fully expected Bortus to turn around once again and kill the torturer but he didn't want his child to see him kill another.
We finally get the only logical conclusion that the Moclans are thrown out of the Union because everything else at this point would be a cheat. Going back to Gordon, I too am sick and tired of people doing bad things from a position of power and always getting away with it. (Take that sentence for what it is - I will not say anything more).
There is the surprise return of Clyden (I expected him back at some point but not so soon) but I think his change of heart is genuine and believable. Almost loosing your child can change your perspective. And he also makes peace with Kelly. Like I said - all this might've worked even better at some point in the future but who knows if there is one for the show. Now, with Clyden back that hinted thing between Bortus and Clyden makes even less sense.
And why haven't we learned about the "Traitor" on Moclus ? Is that supposed to be falling into background noise or will that be re-visited.
Couple of other notes:
Dolly Parton- it's amazing Seth pulled that of. In hindsight it seems like a given but I never would've thought she'd do it.
LaMarr's "Yeah, Sherlock" had me spill my drink. That was so delivered on point.
It's the character moments at the end that had me somewhere between smiling and, yes, tearing up. Any episode that achieves that is never a bad one in my book.
Hopefully this concludes the Topa/Moclans-being-women-haters plot line and this can go back to being a Sci-Fi show instead of a melodrama. The Kaylon threat has been hinted at the entire season but given how little we've seen them they seem less and less like a threat. In fact, the Moclans seem more like the antagonists.
It concerned me that the child said she divulged the name of a collaborator and a secret frequency. Did I miss where they took steps to ameliorate the damage?
10 minutes into the episode
"Oh, I guess this is just going to be a standard, easy-to-digest bottle episode that shows Topa becoming more interested in joining the Planetary Union with a B-plot about her awkwardly crushing on Gordon."
45 minutes into the episode
"Fuuuuuck meeeee..."
More blatant retreading of past episodes and, again, despite that, a brilliant continuation of those plot threads. For an episode that was willing to depict child torture, it sure did end on a high note. And it threw quite a few curve balls in the process.
I ignored the throwaway line during the Haveena dinner, and the unusual meetup in the Lounge, because I absolutely did not expect to see a real spark between Bortus and Kelly. I equally did not expect to see Klyden come back and make a complete about-face from his previous position. There are going to be a lot of viewers that won't take Klyden back, but I am genuinely relieved that the family is whole again. So... (pregnant pause) ...what does that mean for Kelly? The dinner they all had on the ship felt straight-forward, but still gave me a twinge of impending trouble.
I don't quite get Gordon's involvement with Topa yet. I mean, I understand the general sentiment, but not how he suddenly took a frontline position about it. Did I tune out at the wrong time, or was the Engineering scene really meant to be all the backstory? Are they going to continue this in another episode? We don't even know the repercussions of his outburst in front of the Admirals.
Finally, DOLLY PARTON! Her appearance embiggened my heart. And her music was perfect. The celebrity cameos never dissapoint, even if it's just for a few moments. Though it is interesting that she referred to herself as a program, she knew she wasn't the real person. That would be a serious problem in a different altruistic universe.
This is it! These last two episodes are not a two-parter, but they are no doubt going to segue from one to the other as the finale of the season. If an underdog deserves to get renewed, it's The Orville. Seth is no stranger to having his shows canceled (sometimes over and over again). So even if it isn't renewed right away, I trust him of all people to find a way to make it come back somehow.
[8.3/10] When all is said and done, I feel confident that the Topa arc will be the greatest thing The Orville ever did. From her first appearance in “About a Girl” to the trajectory they’ve explored with the Moclans’ reaction to gender and sexuality since, there’s a great impact and meaning here than almost anything else the show does.
In this climactic next chapter in that story, the show comes down in a hard-won but aspirational place: doing the right thing right now matters more than what might happen in the future. It matters for the Union, who must decide to stand for the human rights of female Moclans even if it results in a “messy divorce” with the Moclans in the shadow of the Kaylon threat. It matters for Heveena, who must decide to admit her noble but law-breaking actions to continue smuggling female Moclans to her colony, that might imperil it, in order to put the full weight of the Union Council behind rescuing Topa. And it matters for Dolly Parton, who can walk and sing and give holographic advice just fine no matter what century it is.
There may be no bigger casting coup for the series than that. (We’ll see if Seth MacFarlane ever lures creative collaborator Patrick Stewart over to this spiritual cousin of the show he made famous.) The Orville made great use of Dolly Parton’s music and feminist bona fides in the last Heveena episode, and bringing her live and in person to inspire the Moclan liberator to do the hard thing and risk the lives of the many to save the one. Dolly’s a treat, as always. And while I have my qualms about the pollyanna lesson that doing the right thing now means everything else will work itself out, it fits with the aspirational tone of Star Trek and this story in particular.
And it is stirring and inspiring. There is such potent joy when Topa visits Heveena’s colony and sees women like her thriving. There is such relatable awe when she meets Heveena herself, an idol who spoke for Topa when Topa had no voice. There is something so heartwarming about Heevena turning that around and telling Topa that the revolution is theirs not Heevena’s.
Bortus stands up for his daughter in front of representatives for the entire Union, and it rends the heart. Grayson is invited to their family table when the smoke clears, affirming the important role she’s played in supporting all of them. And most questionably, but movingly, Kylden returns to apologize for all that he’s done and affirm his daughter’s right to be whoever she wants to be. This is an episode full of proud moral stands and a heavy dose of wish fulfillment, but by god, it worked on me.
It’s also an exciting episode. Despite the overlong runtime, the show does a good job of balancing action, character, and politics. While a little gratiutious, there’s plain stakes to Bortus and Grayson going on a blind mission to rescue Topa from the Moclans who are torturing her. The race against time, combined with a poor innocent like Topa suffering, help create an urgency to what the two of them are doing, even before the political implications. Bortus’ justified rage at his daughter's torturer, and the solid canyon chase following it help keep the blood-pumping throughout.
I am curious about the show teasing Grayson and Bortus as a couple. It feels like an echo of the Worf/Troi romance Star Trek: The Next Generation tried to pull off late in its run, with a helpful substitute parental figure also becoming a romantic figure. But she and Bortus have never really had that kind of relationships, and her interactions with Topa are pretty new, so it feels even more out of nowhere than the TNG pairing did. All that said, I’m not against it, especially if it spares us from more Grayson/Mercer romantic nonsense.
The political angle of this one works too. You’ll never go wrong balancing the moral against the practical in a Star Trek adjacent show, or deciding between the ethical responsibilities to an individual weighed against the ethical duties to many more people. As with the stories about the Krill, this episode does a good job of analyzing how much intolerance, bigotry, and bad faith a government will tolerate in the name of expediency. Watching Mercer and especially Gordon take a stand in favor of human rights (so to speak) is rousing.
All that said, I hope The Orville pays off the fact that its main characters are alienating ally after ally with a Kaylon threat looming. I have some faith that it will, but making these bold choices and grand stands doesn’t mean much if there aren't some kind of consequences down the line. That doesn’t have to mean destruction or anything, but there needs to be a cost to doing the right thing, or at least a good reason why the expected bad consequences don’t come to pass.
(Just a random guess, maybe The Orville finds a brilliant way to stop the Kaylon -- something with Timmis and Isaac convincing their countrymen why their view of biologicals is wrong, such that even the Krill and the Moclans can’t help but recognize the Union’s beneficence or something.)
I’m also a little leery of the wish fulfillment involving Klyden. He did and said some horrible things. He apologizes for them, and Chad Coleman is such a great actor that you 100% buy it. And it’s not crazy for a parent to have a change of heart when they think their child is in mortal danger. But his acceptance comes a little too easy, as does his welcome to Commander Grayson. I know there’s only so many episodes, but I wish we got at least some intermediate step beyond “I wish you’d never been born” and “I’m a loving and accepting father now.”
Still, the struggle and victories of the Moclan women is my favorite thing about The Orville, and this is another superior entry in their saga. Seeing Topa, Heveena, Bortus, and others rise up in the name of what’s right and just, not just what’s convenient and expedient, is stirring and inspirational, even if it involves some of the gloss and ease that only fiction can provide.
I'm all for flexible lengths and taking the time to explain a story meaningful, but that was much too long.
I wonder how many Christians realize this episode is about them?
Not sure I like how Captain Mercer decided what was morally right and then emotionally manipulated Heveena to change her decision to fall in line; I think this is actually quite insidious as a technique. Also, why wouldn’t he immediately search for his crew as the first thing he would do? He could follow their trail surely.
sure, bring the controversial girl to the species that hates her, trying to fix the fragile diplomatic relations with that species by spitting them in the face even more, solid plan
and they leave their shuttle unlocked for hours with the main door open and then wonder that somebody sabotaged it .. oh boy
Such incredible writing once again from Seth and the team. Okay, so here goes again:
Despite the procedure and logical fails of
Ed confirming to the admiral that he'll be extra careful politically, but then deciding it's perfectly fine to send Topa, a female Moclan, into the political minefield in the sanctuary
How Topa getting kidnapped by a gentle hand covering her mouth somehow causes her to bleed all over her necklace and also causes the necklace to fall off
Kelly and Bortus on the shuttle deciding not to leave a beacon/probe behind that would let the Orville know about their situation and last-known direction of the ion trail, or even leaving a deliberately visible trail themselves, but just leaving
Kelly not cloaking the shuttle from orbit, but only after they're directly in front of the Moclan black site
The black site, being a 25th century prison, not having any alarms or emergency doors that lock down, ways to disable weapons via EMP or similar, or any basic security features like, oh I don't know, locks on the doors to prevent outside intruders like Kelly and Bortus from just walking inside. The whole place might as well be a stone temple
The Moclan interrogator being from the 25th century, yet only knowing 2 barbaric and ineffective techniques: punching someone's face, and tazing them. This black site must be run by trainees
The tazer Bortus used on the interrogator somehow physically mutilating his only eye, despite it being an electrical tool that left no marks on Topa
The fact that everyone knows Kelly and Bortus have invaded the facility by the time they rescue Topa, but again the black site has no lockdown features or anything at all to stop or even slow down Kelly and Bortus, intruders, from just walking out
How Kelly, who previously cloaked the shuttle in order to land, for some reason, decides to decloak the ship when they take off, so that all the Moclan fighters can see them leaving. My brain: explodes
Kelly not flying the shuttle straight up to leave the planet and go to quantum
Gordon, who is well-known to have negative diplomatic skills, being allowed to even attend such a politically fragile meeting; even if Ed allows it, the admirals (and president) would not
How Gordon was A allowed to speak at all, and B how it's very clear, based on his face and his first couple words, that Gordon was about to rage, but out of all the highly-trained diplomats who can recognize such hostile intent, not a single one of them stops or interrupts Gordon until after he says damaging words
Kelly, Bortus, and Topa somehow being able to drop in unannounced to a Union council meeting without anyone being notified
How the council was shown literally no direct evidence of Kelly or Bortus' claims as to why Topa was so beat up, yet they all immediately believe Kelly and Bortus' words on faith, even though these two are clearly biased towards the Human and Female Moclan side of the debate (Yes, we the viewers know what happened, but the council saw nothing and they have a duty to be unbiased, plus they're all likely to be afraid of taking action and weakening their forces against the Kaylon)
Despite all these, and although I can't say there were fewer mistakes than the previous episode this time, the overall quality of the episodes have been only getting better on average, in my opinion.
Seth and the team are consistently improving the writing, the acting, and the plot lines, more and more. And since my previous reviews were filled with the problems I noticed, but I didn't mention a lot of the excellence to explain what I like about each episode so much, now I'm fixing that:
I love the political conflict with the Moclans actually being used and is an important part of the Kaylon conflict story arc
I like the fact The Orville is going from being "episodic" to "arcs", because to me, arcs are where the real entertainment comes, where you build things up, go through rollercoasters, and get the payoff. Episodic content I feel is good for "breaks" in between arc episodes so it's not too intense the whole time, something like a work "weekend" but for TV show episodes
I like Topa being involved in the story heavily despite most child characters not getting as much screen time or plot involvement, but she's critical to the plot here, so it's nicely done
I felt nostalgia watching the black site escape scene which gave me a Star Wars pod racing / trench run vibe. They even said to aim for the "exaust port"
I'm impressed with how Seth handles real-world politically-sensitive topics with such grace and fluidity to the story. From what I've been seeing, he doesn't force concepts down the viewers throats like other shows have been doing recently as what some people might call "political ass-kissing" or "woke culture", but he actually manages to find a way to share his own opinion about said political debates in an easy-to-hear way. Now, I'm probably biased because from what I've seen, Seth's opinions on those political issues seem to align with mine, but the point is he's not bashing the viewers or fans at all. I feel he's simply showing them a perspective and leaving it at that, which to me is a great way to do it
But all of this is just my opinion. What do you think?
When you take your prejudices too far. Let's see the consequences. "I allowed a lifetime of prejudice to cloud my judgment"
Can't the Kaylons kill us all? Please?
This is one of the best shows on TV.
“There you go Sherlock” :joy:
“Looks better going than coming” :joy:
I swear this shows is the master at one liners
It baffles me how this show continues to make hit after hit episodes all season long. Makes you concerned that other shows cant figure this out
Wth are they trying to do with Bortus and Kelly? No affection shown at all then all a sudden they almost kiss? Huh? I guess I’m being a hater since i still want Kelly and Ed back together
Shut up Kelly!!! Make Bortus do his thing, what if it was your child?
“We are taking fire” No shit Bortus lol
Idk what they are trying to accomplish with Bortus and Kelly and now that his husband is back it’s getting weird. Time will tell
Great episode. Told the story without rushing through it. It's weird to watch these episodes because I'm so use to each episode being 45 minutes long. 90 minute episodes is spoiling me now. And the visuals...CLEAN. Oh, and Dolly Parton!!
"9 to 5" and now a little hint of "Jolene", wonderful.
What kind of idiot voted 1 point before the episode is aired?
You know when the Cenobites and the Lizard people are against you, you done f*cked up. I'm really liking this season. A bit more risky with the story telling. Something the previous two seasons were seriously lacking.
This poorly disguised voke bullshit was annoying the first time and it's not any better now. I had hoped that we had seen the last of this crap.
Dann, these onion cutting aliens at the end of this episode.
the ending has the redeeming sense of justice.
Hang on. She used a kid to act as a go between the refuge and the "underground railway"? Regardless of what you think about the situation; that's fucked up. First thing I'd have hand the old crone over to get the bairn back.
This is the Star Trek we deserve, not what we're getting.
how can television be this THIS GOOD
My new best episode. Well done all and thanks
I think it could have been shorter, which tbh has been something I've thought about most of the episodes this season, or maybe a two part story but apart from that this one was really good.
You had me at Dolly Parton!! Still one of my favorite country singers of all time.
Shout by Alexander von LimbergBlockedParent2022-07-21T19:03:58Z
It all looks so beautiful. Especially the approach to that sanctuary planet is awesome (in good ol'Star Trek fashion the non FX and non studio stuff looks of course like it's contemporary California and it probably is).
Another very solid episode. Sometimes funny, increasingly grim as it progresses. A concise story with a philosophical and political core and an exciting execution. Well done! It's perhaps a few minutes too long but that's also a sign of a great production: if they feel they need more time to tell a story - like this week - they produce a 90 minutes episode. One of the few shows that understands that there's a benefit to streaming and to the departure from programmed TV time slots.
PS: Kudos to Dolly Parton. She's a household name but it's perhaps the first time I've ever seen her acting. Is she playing that Tennessee girl or is that the real her? Her accent is adorable.