Watching this without any sort of idea what this is about kind of gave me that element of surprise. I've never seen Penn Badgley since Gossip Girl so I'm kind of excited to hear he had a new show coming up. A few thoughts about the pilot coming at you in bullets:
-Penn Badgley should narrate something, has he ever done anything like that in his career? because i think he should.
-This girl doesn't have curtains in her apartment, and her bedroom view is across the side walk. it's literally a feast for the eyes of peeping toms and stalkers
-Please stop romanticizing stalkers PLEASE...and a thief.
Hopefully this show gives us Badgley's best performance of his career, knowing it's a mystery, thriller show I hope to see some of that psycho-killer type of actingloading replies
Please stop romanticizing stalkers PLEASE...and a thief.
I disagree. Not because it's right to romanticize stalkers. I think that's getting out of hand. I just disagree that's what's going on here. I think there's a difference between making stalking romantic and making stalking creepy and I think in this pilot episode if you come out of it thinking that Joe is charming in his stalking then you're reading the episode all wrong. HIs cold overly focused demeanor rather than an boundingly emotional one. The chilling music in the background of the episode. It creates a tension that puts the stalking clearly in the creep factor. The fact that Joe is a good looking guy alone doesn't make it romantic. Stalking should be portrayed as it is in this episode as invansive and wrong.
I’ve seen two episodes now and I’ve got to ask: what’s the point of watching this?
There’s nothing inherently satisfying about the show itself.
Just putting a twist on existing lore and calling it a day isn’t enough to hold my attention for 30 mimutes, nor any sane person, I imagine.
Are people only watching this because it sets up future stuff?
Why would anyone watch something that’s just set-up?
Projects are always supposed to function as an isolated piece of art, and not just as a piece of a larger machine.
This show is so empty, it’s the kind of format that lends itself for short 4 minute videos on Youtube.
But a feature series? Come on.Edit: alright so there is an attempt to tie the loose ends together in the final episode, but still, it kinda fails to justify its existence.
loading replies
Just putting a twist on existing lore and calling it a day isn’t enough to hold my attention for 30 mimutes, nor any sane person, I imagine.
You gotta take a step back and be more chill. Just because you aren't enjoying it doesn't make everyone else insane for liking it. It's 30 minutes of entertainment. We've two episodes in at your review. We've gotten pretty much everything the trailers and posters promised. How much were you expecting from an anthology animated spin-off?
Projects are always supposed to function as an isolated piece of art
I'd argue (a) there's a lot of projects that would counter that argument and (b) there's no reason this anthology series couldn't stand alone.
But to answer the questions, you imply but ask poorly, I think at the very minimum the scope of the show so far is not unlike "How It Should Have Ended" but more professionally done. It's purely just for fun with zero stakes (so far). It's been over 20 movies and numerous TV shows depending on how you count it in the span of 18 years. It's been a relentless pace of almost an entire generation of film after film after film. In between which we've had shows that work and shows that didn't and shows that work again and in all of that we've never had anything meta like What if..? It's a time filler that knows it's a time filler. It can certainly be interesting on that level alone. It's The Twilight Zone with superheroes complete with it's Rod Sterling stand-in with Jeffrey Wright. They are one-time stories you don't really have to remember. For the most part it was that way when these alternate universe stories started in the comics too.
Review by Jordy
VIP8Denis Villeneuve is the man!
There’s only one word that came into my mind after watching it: finally.Finally, a blockbuster that isn’t afraid to be primarily driven by drama and tension, and doesn’t undercut its own tone by throwing in a joke every 30 seconds.
Finally, a blockbuster that puts actual effort in its cinematography, and doesn’t have a bland or calculated colour palette.
Finally, a blockbuster with a story that has actual substance and themes, and doesn’t rely on intertextual references or nostalgia to create a fake sheen of depth.
Finally, a blockbuster that doesn’t pander to China by having big, loud and overblown action sequences, but relies on practical and grounded spectacle instead (it has big sand worms, you really don’t need to throw anything at the screen besides that).
Finally, a blockbuster that actually feels big, because it isn’t primarily shot in close ups, or on a sound stage.
And of course: finally, a blockbuster that isn’t a fucking prequel, sequel, or connected to an already established IP somehow.(Yeah, I know Tenet did those things as well, but I couldn’t get into that because the characters were so flat and uninteresting).
This just checks all the boxes. An engaging story with subtext, very well set up characters, great acting (like James Gunn, Villeneuve's great at accentuating the strengths of limited actors like Dave Bautista and Jason Momoa), spectecular visuals and art design (desaturated but not in an ugly washed out way), pacing (slow but it never drags), directing, one of Hans Zimmer’s best scores: it’s all here.
I only have one real criticism: there’s too much exposition, especially in the first half.
It can occasionally hold your hand by referencing things that have already been established previously, and some scenes of characters explaining stuff to each other could’ve been conveyed more visually.
Other than that, it’s easily one of the best films of the year.
I’ve seen some people critiquing it for being incomplete, which is true, but this isn’t just a set up for a future film.
It feels like a whole meal, there are pay offs in this, and the characters progress (even if, yes, their arcs are still incomplete).8.5/10
loading replies
finally, a blockbuster that isn’t a fucking prequel, sequel, or connected to an already established IP somehow.
nobody tell him.
This movie is just as good as you would expect a movie titled baby driver would be.
The plot is incredibly foreseeable, the characters aren't that interesting, and the whole backstory as to how the main character baby ended up in this position was incredibly far fetched. But the movie isn't all bad, it has some great action scenes, and the way music is used is down right genius. The plot may be terrible, but i would still recommend watching the movie purely for its soundtrack. The songs were great, and it was such big part of the story, i loved the scenes in which they synced the beats up with the gun shots. Sadly i can't rate it higher than a 5 overall.loading replies
@dkznike I think your opinion is mostly wrong. But ya know what darn if you didn't justify yourself. So +1 to you good sir.
Enjoyed it even though the leftist bullshit agenda does my head in,all whites are evil and all that bullshit!
loading replies
@kingy72 The police chief was a white guy he was good, The Red Scare is an actor who often plays racist Russian gangsters but he was a good guy, the officer Looking Glass was a good guy, while one of the little kids was a white racist kid the show goes through efforts to show he's just a kid and isn't a racist. The teacher didn't endorse his words. There were plenty of white cops in that police station scene as well. If you walk away with the sense that all white people are evil in this world then that's on you, not the show.
Holy hell, what did I just watch?
Did this women escape from a mental hospital, leave a trail of dead bodies and be like 'oh let me just pull out my pussy pass' to get out of jail free?
loading replies
@htpcmac what are you talking about? There was MAYBE one dead body among the guards as she left the mental hospital. At no point did anyone let her go. The guards were all taken out by Adrian at the front door she used her gun to stop the guards from approaching and she snuck into a car after the driver got out because he was just in an accident. No one gave her anything. At best one of the guards saw her and told her to stay down but even he didn't let her go he was also the guard who saw two other guys knocked out when she was 15 ft away from them. Hence why he was looking for someone while she was saying "He's right behind you". Watch it again it's actually a pretty low body count film. All those guards were knocked out and not killed.
She got freed from jail more permanently not because of her gender but because she found and killed "the real killer" aka Todd as far as the justice system proved. The suit with Todd in it plus what the guards saw and what James and Sydney saw means she has reasonable doubt as to her guilt. Even if some of the guards would have thought Cecilia attacked them. A majority of them would have seen that she couldn't have attacked any of them. At best she could be guilty of resisting arrest, escaping prison and brandishing a weapon all of which are negligible and have mitigating circumstances in movie logic.
The real question is why does a secure facility (all the policemen) have such an easy means of exit. The entire jailed sequence I almost considered that he wasn't there because he would have been locked in with her since he couldn't escape. Not to mention all the human needs. Even a minimum security psychiatric care facility should have been harder to escape from without an ID badge or something.
I’m a little confused that Rorschach has been taken and used as white supremacy symbol.
loading replies
@bogdangastin sure that actually makes sense. Rorshach by no means was anything close to a white supremacist himself but if he was a real person meeting out violence left and right and always ending up right. That's exactly the sort of person that white supremacists would love. Unlike Ozymandias who was rich and unrelatable. Rorshach did things and you could feel him doing things.
I mean think literally about how police (in real life) see themselves as The Punisher in spite of the fact that The Punisher is literally a person who acts outside the law because he sees the police as incompetent. As opposed to Captain America which would make a much better symbol for protecting and serving.
why has their always got to be incest in shows???
it feels like its happening in more shows than ever! - got the vibe from episode oneloading replies
@wakandanforever what all shows? There's The Fosters on ABC Family which as a show about foster kids you kinda expect at some point it pops up. I never seen it but I've heard it's a thing. And then there's Shadowhunters. Which wasn't as bad as the movies which wasn't as bad as the original book. So while I fully concede it was gross in Shadowhunters I really haven't seen it anywhere else played romantically. You see it all the time in police procedurals played for gross crimes sure.
And honestly they're so vague about the relationship I can tell they were into each other but I dunno if that's kissing or sex or hand holding or just unrequited romance.
Here's a new cozy crime investigation series with a bunch of familiar faces, and oh, look.....it's Erika Christensen from 20 years ago Swimfan! all grown up and lookin' fine :smiley:
To me it takes a few easy on the eyes cast members, an acceptable plot, professional videography and comfortable lighting to decide on whether I'll be moving forward with the show or not. I'm all cozied up with this show....let's see how it'll hold up.
loading replies
@typongtv Real Recognize Real. I was gonna skip this show after the description but then I saw Erika in the cast and I had basically the same thoughts. My SwimFan bae. I always make time in my schedule to check out something she's in.
What was the point of the flashbacks with Suleiman and his brother? They were boring. And I didn't care about them. It's like they're trying to make the viewer not hate Suleiman. It's not working.
loading replies
It was context for two things beyond the obvious that you already mentioned. 1) it shows why Suleiman would be so dedicated to his brother 2) it shows a relationship marker that Jack fails in the text chat "Peace be with you" "Not if she's been with you first"
I’m still confused, is the cp his son’s or not? Maybe i missed something, the wife seems to make it even more confusing and makes it leave towards it being for their son . From what i remember it should be for the guy at the church that gave him the drive. Is it another drive? That would be one hell of a coincidence.
loading replies
@j_345 The drive and the contents belongs to Edgar the church member. Vicar Harry took the drive from him and kept it. Apparently THIS is the stuff his mother was berating him for.
When Harry realized his son gave the teacher the flash drive he said basically "oops it's porn" and the kid played along to try to take the fall for Harry "Oh that's my porn I'm a growing boy lol" not realizing what kind of porn it was.
What's unclear so far here is how much Harry and his wife knew about the situation. It SEEMS like they knew Edgar had a porn issue which is why as a vicar's wife she might be aware that Edgar has an issue with pornography. It's unclear whether or not they knew it was a c porn issue though it's clear if they didn't know before Harry told her now.
My confusion is why Janice would be so quick to presume that the porn was Ben's not just because he said it jokingly but she refused to believe a literal vicar when he tried to say it belonged to a parishioner. Do they not have the Seal of the Confessional in the UK? Priests keep secrets. It's what they do.
Horrible, just horrible. Everything wrong with modern tv shows
This is some of THE worst writing i've ever encountered. I don't know who took over from seasons 1 & 2 but they were hell bent on making this an almost unwatchable joke of a show. I actually finished it as painful as it was.
There is literally nothing redeemable about this.
I don't even know where to begin. It's offensive to watch. The actors try to do their best but its just such horrible writing.
The woke gay stuff in the beginning is so over the top that it's repulsive. There is something very strange about the costumes for the pretty girls. Why are they always showing the midriff and having them wear such bizarre pants? Its just weird. Then there are these bizarre musical interludes. The plot is beyond stupid. There were rules supposedly governing things but that only depends on the scene.Usually I write something cohesive and logical but between the rum I needed to get thru this and the bad writing all I can say is this is pure shit.
loading replies
@ranchpig wait... by "woke gay stuff" do you mean the wedding? and what musical interludes? The only musical scenes were in the mind of the dying guy in the finale episodes.
whait who is becky butler???
loading replies
@mahaddiction Becky Butler is the subject of the podcast that made Cinda Canning popular. The gist is that throughout the series we've learned a little about Cinda and primarily that they came into prominence after blowing up the case, and solving the murder of Becky Butler in the podcast All is not Okay in Oklahoma. As a viewer you assume that All is Not Okay in Oklahoma is just the case that made her popular but the reveal in the ending of this episode is that Cinda has ALWAYS been pushy. Cinda had something to do with the painting and Cinda befriended the Detective Kreps to get the inside scoop and used that connection to get the case closed on the murder of Becky Butler. Also that Becky Butler was never murdered in the first place and she's secretly been Cinda's producer the whole time and Det. Kreps planted evidence that got whomever sent to jail for that crime.
Obviously, this is not my kind of movie. Started to watch this because Zooey Deschanel is simply amazing, but I quit it after 15 minutes before even spotting her on screen. I couldn't bare watching any longer!
loading replies
@lifeiscrazy Well I'm not gonna say you NEED to see this movie. It was okay even at the time. Though I will say it holds up better than some other sex comedies. It's just a LOT of stunt casting. But if you made it 15 minutes you DID see Zooey Deschanel quite a bit of her. Honestly this is one of the least "Zooey Deschanel"-looking roles she's had. Let's just say this is a far far far cry from New Girl aka Peak Zooey.
Wow. This is just rubbish bya group of people who seem to have very little experience (based on both profiles, and a level of overacting I haven't seen outside of a Brighton Panto) - and yet, seem to have received some special effects budget.
I'll be honest, I watched it based on name - "Avengers", "Time Wars" but wished I'd read a synopsis.
Ignore the premise - which is actually good - it's just awful, and then goes downhill.
loading replies
@peteo FYI, you might want to look up "Mockbusters" and "The Asylum". The Asylum's bread and butter is people in your position who haven't heard of them and parents who aren't clued in getting "the new avengers film" for their kids. Every once in a while they hit like with their Kaiju-like Sharknado series or with their Walking Dead imitator Z-Nation (which rises not to excellence but to genuine low investment fun). But most of the time it's just junk that sounds similar Transmorphers, The Terminators, Battle OF Los Angeles, Planet Dune, Top Gunner, Atlantic Rim. The Fast and the Fierce. All films that have fun covers and interesting synopsis but aren't even worth putting on for a drinking game or as background noise at like a house party or something. Not even worth it for laughing at how bad they are. Better off watching whatever full movies you can watch on YouTube like "Even Lambs Have Teeth" or "Velocipastor"
I feel bad hating on such a small detail, but as a native French speaker, when both of those guys were supposedly speaking french it was super hard to understand them.
"Frenchie" has a really thick foreign accent (I think the actor is actually Israeli) and the "random goon" has a really thick french-canadian accent. It was a real strain to make out anything they were saying, lol.
loading replies
@alexnader to be fair the goons are supposed to be Haitian I think. Not that they're using a Haitian accent either. As an anglophone I could make out most of what they're saying but it's all foreign to me anyway.
Anyone else ever notice that Bortus seems to ALWAYS have some level of drama going on? Think about it; the gender of his kid, public urination, porn addiction, his spouse killing someone, facial hair, nicotine addiction... I know I must have missed some but you get the gist of it...
loading replies
@cmonster Bortus serves the function of the newest most alien crew on Star Trek. Every series has one. In TOS it was Vulcans in TNG it was Klingons. In The Orville it's a combination of Bortus and Isaac. Isaac is more the hidden hand grenade of alieness but with weird rituals and unknowable culture habits that's Bortus. It's gonna be a while before the Bortus drama stops and everytime there's a dip and nothing else to do for a b plot or even a main plot they'll go back to werid Bortus things.
so naw it's not just you noticing it.
I think I might just prefer season one of The Orville to season two.
Every episode lately feels like it's own short story, too much so.
We had two episodes in a row that dealt with dating someone in a situation where romantic feelings might be deemed unacceptable socially.
And we don't see as much of the captain. In season one, it was more centered about his struggles. Now he's seen as much as everyone else. But that said, this was a good episode.
loading replies
@dewdropvelvet I actually like that it's not the Captain Ed show as much in Season 2. But I do agree about the constant romance drama like there's other types of drama out there.
The Holy Grail reminded me of Preacher, the comic. Those who've read it or watched the show would know what I'm talking about. This show is garbage compared to Preacher, though.
loading replies
@legendaryfang56 ok so here's my question.. the show is "garbage" and yet 8/10?
How can it be Ocean's if Ocean is not there. Good lineup of actresses though, although its disappointing rihanna was casted also into this.
loading replies
@vincenzokoestler No. I don't think it's quite stupid. I'm actually excited for the movie. It has a lot of my favorite actresses in one of my favorite genres. I like 7 actresses in this movie and I liked 7 in Ocean's 11 so this one actually has less fluff than it's predecessors.
I think stupid was trying to recreate a random Rat Pack vehicle movie with modern actors but that worked out. This is much less stupid and I actually know and like more of the cast, than with Ocean's 11. We'll have to wait and see how the movie turns out but I'm excited and that's all.
P.S. If you don't like Rihanna you need to see Valerian she was great in that (and no that wasn't her dancing I'm aware of that body swap)
How can it be Ocean's if Ocean is not there. Good lineup of actresses though, although its disappointing rihanna was casted also into this.
loading replies
@right Sandra Bullock plays Debbie Ocean whose older brother is Danny Ocean.
6.9/10. This was a very confused episode, that was trying to do a lot of good things, but never really manages to get them off the ground due to, at times, incoherent plotting or just plain dumb logic. Let's go through them!
Clare and Dr. Burstein managing to fix Luke was a fairly tense scene...that didn't make much sense. I mean, to some degree you have to go with comic book logic and accept the technobabble, but why heat was necessary to make Luke's skin more pliable, when that level of heat was what made his skin strong in the first place, is fairly puzzling. Still, the show replicated the sort of ER hecticness of a patient flatlining to keep the intensity of the scene up, so you can kind of let them get away with it.
But that's not the only piece of dumb logic in the episode. When Diamonback is trying to frame Luke, and get him tarred as copkiller, it's pretty ridiculous that he himself goes out in a hoodie and uses some superpowered punch thing to do it. The reveal of his shared biology with Luke means there's the grain of a good idea there, but the two don't really look alike, in build or in their facial structure, and Diamondback yelling out "I'm Luke Cage!" just seemed humorous. Maybe you can cut the show some slack for trying to provide a commentary on the problems with cross-racial eye-witness identification, but I'm not sure I give the show credit for such headiness, and either way, it doesn't really work within the logic of the show.
But it works flawlessly, to where Misty is the only person who seems to doubt that Luke was the one who punched that nice cop to death. What, however, is her argument beyond the fact that she just doesn't think Luke would do that (despite the fact that there's dashcam footage of him punching other cops across the block when feeling cornered)? This assailant was wearing a backpack. Luke doesn't wear a backpack! This case is airtight! It's not like Luke could have just put on a backpack for some reason! Yet again, the show tries and fails to show that Misty is a sharp detective. It knows how it wants to present her, but doesn't have the writing to actually demonstrate that she's good at her job beyond the "visualize the crime scene" ability.
Of course we jump back to Dr. Burstein's barn, where Luke uses the laptop to discover that Reva was in on the whole thing. What should be a piercing emotional reveal falls flat due to Mike Colter's acting, which continues to be not quite enough at heightened moments like these. It's an interesting story, feeling betrayed by the one person who gave you hope in a dark place, but Colter can't really sell the moment. His anger and destruction of Burstein's lab/barn feels more like a plot save than a canny narrative choice. it's supposed to be cathartic and feel like justice in Luke preventing someone else from going through what he's been through, but it's shortsighted since he may need those facilities again if he gets shot once more.
It also leads to more dull non-chemistry between Luke and Clare that doesn't really add up to anything but Luke going back to visit his dad's old church in Georgia. I really like the way the scene is shot and edited -- with smooth transitions between the past and the present as Luke stares at the dilapidated chapel and remembers what happened when he was a kid -- but the reveals are underwhelming. There's a fairly direct Isaac and Ishamel parallel going on, and I can I appreciate that as thematic subtext to the issues between Luke and Diamondback, but the show does a pretty weak job at showing how young Luke could have missed his Dad having an affair with Diamondback's mom, while adult Luke can put the pieces together. The things he remembers aren't exactly subtle, and while you can handwave it with Luke having repressed the memories until the site of his dad's church made them all flood back, it seems very strange that he wouldn't have put this together sooner.
Things get dumber still after the cops start beating around the block trying to get info on where Luke is. Again, I like what the show is trying to do here. There is a The Wire-esque quality of these scenes of cops being angry at the loss of one of their own, and taking it out on the streets, hassling corner boys and being needlessly rough. That side of things rings true and feels motivated, even if, again, everyone feels like a sucker for falling for Diamondback's ruse so easily. The cop interrogating Little Lonnie and going too far feels like a bit much, a bit too calculated to tug on your heartstrings, but it works for what the show's going for.
The problem is that since Mariah is being strongarmed by Diamondback to try to sell the public on Luke Cage and powered people generally as a threat, the show has to tie her pitch for the police department buying superpowered weapons from Diamondback to the cops beating up this kid, and it doesn't really add up. There's a strange "the cops abused their power, so we should give them really powerful weapons" logic that doesn't make any sense, but for this episode in particular, you just kind of have to go with the flow and accept that nothing makes sense and the story's just going where it needs to go regardless of the demands of basic logic.
So of course, Luke returns to Harlem (this whole thing seemed to happen very quick, how long did his trip and curing take and visit home take?) and Misty is after Diamondback at Harlem's Paradise and Luke jumps into save her as we hit a cliffhanger. Why the hell not? It's vaguely action-y, and it gives us some cool scenes of Mariah riling up the crowd and showing herself as an expert manipulator and showman even when the pitch makes no sense. With Alfre Woodard's delivery, I almost believed it.
That's the big problem though. This show wants to traffic in real life tensions between police and the black community. It wants to play in the realism of its setting and the genuine issues facing the people of Harlem and similar urban areas. But it has to marry all of that with an out there comic book storyline, involving secret brothers, magic labs in barns, and elaborate schemes to sell superguns. The result is something that often feels very stitched together and not really doing justice to either side of the equation. You can employ comic book logic the whole way through, or you can try to ascribe for something approaching realism, but finding the balance is a tricky business, and it's something that all of Marvel's Netflix shows have struggled with to some degree. Luke Cage in particular seems stuck in the middle, with no clear idea on how to reconcile its hardscrabble atmosphere and its superhero roots.
loading replies
@andrewbloom What your describing is about a 5/10 or maybe a 6/10 episode and that's on a hard 10 point scale not the 100 point scale you use. You present a well thought out review which I liked. It was compelling. I agree with some but not all of it. However your score of nearly 7 (69/100) I think doesn't match up to what I read. That score is way too high for your thoughts. That's all. Carry on.
Review by wolfkin
Okay so let's talk about episodes 5 and 6.
Ron Pearlmen was an utter delight. I can't not say that. He always is. Just is. Even here in this lackluster role. That said the second half of the season is a noticeable upswing. I really like even this episode and what it's doing character-wise. Plot-wise it was nonsense but it's not like it's going anywhere anyway at least now I'm starting to enjoy the ride. The interplay between our leads is interesting even if the again the fact that they are spies is not. What I find fascinating is that there's more narrative flow and consistency in the titles and descriptions than there is in the show. It's like they prepared the show with the titles and synopsis long before they started filming. Because this
Couples Therapy (Naked & Afraid) - Oh, John. Oh, Jane. Our pair have been oh so bad at sharing and caring. Time to call in help -- John and Jane, get ready for: COUPLES THERAPY, what a gas!
Is an entire different level than what even this episode is. This is fun and goofy and comical in a way that not even at it's best the show is. Maybe on a scene by scene basis you might find something worthy of the type of gassing in the title/synopsis but most of it is very different. It's lazier, more laid back, less invested. Which to say yet again I don't put on Maya and Donald. They're solid but the writing and directing just don't care. It's weird to look at this show and say "Well at least True Lies the TV Show tried." I mean the True Lies show bombed like 70-80% of it's run time but at least they were going for something. The jokes were sometimes dumb but they came (a little too) consistently.
As for episode 6? Well honestly it's my favorite episode so far. It's fun in a way that few episodes have been until now. Holy snap it just occurred to me. Part of it is the missing intrigue. As I've said before this is a show with zero guile. I mean they're spies but spies in this world is a gig job. Anyone signs up anyone gets in and the AI runs you like an uber app. It's dumb and boring and uninteresting. But here... here they have to lie. They have to
explaintranslate and keep things up in front of a therapist who, imo, Sarah Paulson made utterly adorable "Yeah! Whatever DID happen to Mya?" I died. She was hilarious. It's amazing how just getting the formula right finally lets everything shine. The spycraft is minimized but it doesn't matter because I'm having a ball watching Maya and Donald rehash their relationship. A relationship I actually care about this episode. "The therapist episode" shows the potential of this series.loading replies
artificial reason for two strangers to be stuck together and have some kind of amusing relationship issues
Agreed. I just don't find their relationship issues compelling. It's too dull for a spy show and not meaty enough for a relationship show. and IMO most of the early episodes are just failing on all fronts.
Being spies is more just a running gag
Disagreed. mostly because of the word gag. it carries a tone of humor that this doesn't have.
the film versions
One film but before the film there was a CBS crime drama series starring Scott Bakula of Quantum Leap fame. But yes. In the film version (Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie) it was definitely way more bombastic and action packed. From what I've read the CBS show plotwise was more similar to this. Two spies have to work as a married couple. In the movie it was two people who were a married couple but unknown to each other they were spies on opposite teams.
Review by wolfkin
It wasn't bad. But honestly I'm very very disappointed this isn't a TV show. I misread the trailer and wasn't expecting a movie. I think this would have been amazing as TV show. It could have done what the True Lies tv show failed to do. It would have done what I expect the upcoming Mr and Mrs Smith show will fail to do. Kaley did a solid job as an action character. She's no Megan Fox in Rogue (2020) [awful movie but Fox was excellent] but she was solid. I'm not her biggest fan but I don't hate her and, respect where respect is due, her acting was more than okay. David however, like the plot, was under-fulfilled. I think he could have done more with his character of the straightman muggle husband. The script just didn't give any room for it. They did have more chemistry than I expected they would. I saw the trailer and in no way did I think I would buy them as a couple 100%, I was expecting maybe 60% buy in, but I kinda do.
Antagonists Bill Nighy and Connie Nielsen were enjoyably bad. Though Connie was under written. I didn't really get that slightly psychotic character from her the way the script seemed to want me to.
The tone of the movie was uneven. You're never really quite rocked out of the mood of the movie, but you've never sitting comfortable in it either. Mr. and Mrs. Smith the movie was very much a sexy spy "kill a bunch of guys" movie with likes of whiplash pans. True Lies the movie was very much an Arnold comedy with a bunch of one-liners and amusing growls. There are others that are more about the romance like say Mr Right or This Means War. Which are all very much comedic spy stuff with a heavy heavy dose of RomCom. The ingredients were there to make this the variation that focused on Romance with a capital R. I haven't seen one of those in a while and like I said they had the chemistry for it. But the movie wants to be an R-rated comedy so it tries to have it's cake and eat it too.
Almost every problem I had with this would have been resolved if it had been a full season length. Heck I might have even bonded with the kids. They could be given personalities and then maybe I'd care when their health is threatened.
loading replies
@great_vc I know it's not out yet but I'm not a fan of what I've seen of Mr and Mrs Smith the TV show. I'm not a fan of the changes to the character dynamics (everything seems to indicate they aren't hiding their spy-status from each other) and more importantly I don't like the chemistry of the show. I like the actors individually but I don't like what I see of them working well together. One thing I'll say about Role Play is that even in the trailers I was kinda pleasantly surprised at how good the leads looked together and the chemistry continued in the film. Even True Lies the TV show I think the leads had good chemistry. The writing was just not interesting unfortunately. It had moments but only moments.
That said I have very famously been wrong in the past. Heck I was super super against lady Starbuck and Black Spider-Man but in both cases I've been converted. I love the Spider-Verse films and was a fan of Miles shortly before they came out. BSG for like 3 seasons, was one of the best scifi epic shows not named Farscape. I'm definitely watching Mr. and Mrs Smith. I like Maya and Donald is usually fine. Maybe I'll be proven wrong and get to add another notch at the "I clearly can't predict goodness" belt.
Haven't read the book (or books) but if they're remotely similar to this movie, then the author should consider retiring. The story has all the tropes you would expect from a CW show (including the terrible CGI). Obnoxious characters, bad acting, obvious references to the HP saga... I could only watch for like 30 minutes and its runtime still had two more hours! No way, Jose. Charlize... Girl! What did you see in this script?
loading replies
@fzirit I'm about 30 minutes into the movie and I'm confused myself. And someone who read the books they are infinitely more subtle. To the point where I'm not sure what the point of this movie is because it loses every ounce of creativity and subtlety and interest.
Review by Chandramohan Kannan
Is there a rule in the US that 14 and 15 year olds have to be played by 20 somethings?? Always find that casting paradigm a tad silly...
Regardless, it is nice that the original authors are increasingly finding their way to being creators of show... and so it is equally perplexing to why they would change their own stories for the live motion format... Mickey's uncle Myron Bolitar is a major character in the Harlan Coben universe... why create a new character called Shira to surrogate for him... I'd understand if Harlan had a contract with a different studio, that has exclusive contract on Myron Bolitar and its usage... but here, he gets named and identified as an alum of the school with basketball records... then why replace that character?? Is it supposed to be some sort of misguided gender equality?
Update (Sep 15, 2023): Funnily enough the live motion format moves slower than the literary format of the book... the first 3 episodes could have easily been edited into a one hour pilot... there is nothing here that deserves a 3 episode run... the remaining episodes do pick up the pace... especially given the serious topics (child sex trafficking, adultery, etc.,) the story deals with... however it does itself a disservice by dealing frivolously with too many hard topics in a teenage setting...
loading replies
@chandramohan-kannan The pilot wrapped in 2021, the kid was born in 2003, hence 18. The rest of the series finished filming in 2022 so 19 then. That's where the 18 number is coming from.
That said it's a minor point in the face of, as you put it, the general observation. Hollywood parents let their kids do a surprising number of things so I don't think it's limits per se. I do think there's a bigger push for body types. Which is why all these fully developed six-pack abs jock types are played by dudes almost 30 because you need to be that age to get six pack abs like that.
There are also other filming considerations when filming with actual teenagers both behind and in front of the camera that makes it more preferable to film with older actors. In front of the camera they age faster and more. Behind the camera younger actors do have restrictions on their time and how MUCH they can film.
Review by Andrew Bloom
VIP9[7.7/10] I loved about 80% of this one, and it only gets points knocked off for ending the whole thing on such a miserable note. I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen an episode soar so beautifully for most of its runtime, only to crash and burn at the very end like this.
Suffice it to say, putting the vamps and Guillermo into an HGTV-style reality show is a hoot. I thought it was a little odd that they brought in such talented comedians like the Sklar brothers to do the little ads for the home-renovation show that Lazlo watched regularly. It makes sense now! And they kill it! Both of them absolutely nail the saccharine sunniness and hollow positivity of those sorts of televised cheese merchants. There’s an “I’m your server at TGI Fridays”-esque faux-enthusiasm to everything that makes for an amusing juxtaposition of the darkness and vulgarity that pervades the vamps’ abode.
I’ll confess, I haven't seen a ton of those HGTV shows, but WWDitS absolutely nails the tone and rhythms of the few I have seen. The forced taglines, the false drama of the act breaks, the silly swooping shots, and the goofy graphics are all done to perfection. You don’t have to be an expert in this sort of television to appreciate the attention to detail in the presentation and how it exposes how ridiculous this sort of thing is by merely replicating it.
But it also injects the peculiar ridiculousness of the vamps in all of this. Lazlo as a starstruck superfan tickled my ribs. Nadja being against the whole thing until it nets her a golden toilet made me chuckle. Nandor being so amazed by a “Home Is Where the Wine Is” sign is adorable. Guillermo being against the whole thing for very practical reasons of avoiding exposure, until he realizes he can spin things to improve his “hidey hole” is a great bit. And I love the humor of Nadja hypnotizing the crew, editors, and other nerds not to notice they’re vampires or that one of the hosts was murdered in the first scene.
I also enjoy the subplot about Nandor trying to build a mancave to get away from Marwa. There’s genuine insight to the idea that having someone who likes all the same things as you sounds good on paper, but that in practice, having someone who never challenges you or complements you, only matches you, would be exhausting and unsatisfying. I also appreciate him being hoisted by his own petard, where the fact that he wants a mancave where he can be away from her means she wants a mancave where she can be away from him. It’s a nice twist on the whole thing.
But god, I’ve never liked Devious Simon, or Nick Kroll’s whole shtick for that matter. I can appreciate the absurdity of turning this whole production into a shaggy dog story where it was all a ruse to get Lazlo’s witch skin hat. I have to tell you, though, I find Kroll’s overdoing it as a vampire exhausting, and the “humor” of his parade of hangers on to be dead on arrival. There’s some more funny digs at home renovation shows, about how they’re only fit for people half paying attention in hospitals and airports (which is, candidly, where I’ve seen them). But delivered in this package, the whole thing goes over about as well as a big wet fart.
Overall, I love this one as a format bender and in its ability to mesh the show’s sensibilities with the nonsense of reality television, but the limp, annoying ending brings an otherwise quality episode down considerably.
loading replies
@andrewbloom fun fact it's becoming more of an open secret that the show are even more ridiculous than they appear as often people have made up their decisions before the show even gets involved. As in people buy homes and THEN get on home hunters where ostensibly they "search" for a home before settling on a home they already were going to get.
i don't really understand why this film is so popular - it's not bad and the fight scenes are enjoyable, but i don't think the plot really goes anywhere. it's quite obvious that bourne is some sort of spy/assassin from early on and there's not much development from there. none of the other characters are interesting in any way including the woman and their relationship with each other, the climax is hardly climactic, no comic relief throughout the whole movie, don't feel that it had any sort of message, etc etc.
loading replies
@mollyelton if you ever get the chance check out the book. They really simplified the plot in a certain way that kinda make it as you say "quite obvious" the books add layers to that. Even Marie imo was better developed in the book.
Review by wolfkin
Oh man the copaganda is strong with this one. It hit me pretty hard in this episode. Had a bit of whiplash. I like Selena as a character but why is she allowed to be so close to this case? I think her entire character is written to be "gets too close to the case and flips out in appropriately so everyone can dress her down". It's silly. I don't blame this on the actress. Heck I don't even blame it on Selena. I blame it on everyone else who keeps letting her participate. It's ridiculous from the times she goes "I can handle whatever it is... tell me" and then right after finding out goes "NO... no... you're wrong". And then everyone dresses her down like "Hey Officer Juarez, be objective". Ironically they aren't being objective they're wildly speculating. Cops who do this are the problem IRL. But because it's TV their wild speculation is 100% on the mark with no errors. Her problem isn't not being objective. It's being emotional. Openly emotional. You could have an argument about the sexism in that scene but generally I don't think The Rookie has as big a problem in that area.
I like how this is the second cop show this week where I've seen cops threaten someone with rape. I don't know what else "or do you remember what it's like to be a pedophile behind bars" is supposed to mean. Oh maybe it just means assault. That's ... better?
This show and other cop shows want you to think if you just talk to cops and you're empathetic enough cops will believe the words coming out of your mouth. Never talk to the police more than required. Never volunteer information. Always get a lawyer. Cops will use what happens on TV to trick you. On TV the cops will just ask you to talk to them and just tell them real quick and they'll let you go and find the real guy. In real life if you say anything that can be used out of context to make YOU look like the bad guy they'll just do that. It's easier and they don't have to hunt down someone they might or might not find. After all cops love to talk about how many crimes they solve. Doesn't matter if they solve it correctly. That number doesn't get publicized. Cops will convince you that you don't need a lawyer and if you talk now it won't be as bad for you. It will be as bad for you. They're under zero obligation to treat you better because you were cooperative. That's just something cops say they do on TV. Like asking suspects to just confess.... because?
The cops find a convicted pedophile they're legally allowed to harass any time they want for zero reason (and yes that's harassment but because it's a pedophile we're supposed to think "well good. He deserved it. They need this power to harass scum like that" but IRL this get used against a single mother with two kids working three jobs who doesn't even have time to get sexually assaulted by a PO today but hey whatever). They find this guy. He's super cagey. He has mementos of the missing child. Then, when they bring him in, he acts shocked and they stop thinking he might be responsible. Now they stop looking at him for the crime because it has to be the stand-up cop who has no evidence against him. Nah couldn't be the pedo where the only evidence was found. And of course again, because it's TV, there is a super tight conspiracy where a cop does everything right and frames someone while committing horrific crimes repeatedly every year like a criminal mastermind. That's way more plausible than the guy who did it repeatedly and shows zero remorse did it again. The hidden message of this portion is that cop guts are how policework should be done. The cop suspected another cop based on gut instinct. The cop let go of the creepy man based on gut instinct. Honestly the irony of "We can't arrest him. That starts a 72 hour clock after which we have to let him go if we don't have a charge" and then they solve the mystery and find the girl in like 5 hours just baffles me. Cops do this stuff all the time. But because it's a fellow cop he "knows all the procedures". Cops don't have special procedures. Cops don't even have good procedures. What they have is money and numbers. LAPD Patrol isn't some silent hero-team doing elite work on the streets that no one appreciates. They do what they want, when they want and they have the legal authority and weaponry to get away with anything. On top of all the random legal corruption and illegal corruption, there are semi-organized gangs within law enforcement and no one has the authority or will to do anything about it. They rape, they murder, they kill pets, they steal but The Rookie wants me to buy that one of the most infamous beats in the nation dresses down their rookies for being "not being objective".
And that final showdown? I don't know what I supposed to take from this except that cops want to kill you. Because there's no reason to breach an empty abandoned house RIGHT AFTER the only hostage was freed. They keep talking about wondering if they could have talked him down and whether it was necessary and honestly. It wasn't. There was no rush. No urgency. no concern and yet they ran in as soon as possible. Who was he a danger to? Himself? Well lucky he didn't kill himself then. Oh he was suicidal guess we should bum rush him. And this is how they treat one of their own.
And Officer Juarez forgiving her mother saying it wasn't her fault it was her sickness when two episodes ago she was saying functionally how dare her mother blame this on her sickness and it was her fault. Pick a lane sugar (I'm trying to pick a pejorative to her age not her gender), either you understand addiction is a disease or you don't. You don't get to pick and choose when you care. More specifically you don't get to pick and choose and then dress down everyone else for not understanding when your understanding is conditional. You just know before this arc started she would have dressed down anyone just like every other TV cop who refused addiction as a disease. I mean how the mighty have fallen seeing Wesley talk about how he can "sell" a scenario where one person did the crime and not the other one in spite of zero evidence is gross. It's exactly the kind of prosecutorial overreach that Wesley used to talk about when his character was introduced. It's entirely the sort of thing that leads to people getting convicted for crimes they didn't do.
There are far too many people in /r/TheRookie who seem to love Schmitty. He's an awful character but he is everyone's favorite incompetent does something effectively and efficiently.
In another show these wouldn't be a big deal. Cop shows are cop shows and they're lies from the opening credits to closing credits. Everything about them is a lie from how much they hate IA, to how cops will lie to other cops about whether they're being investigated, to how cops will sit across from you in an interrogation room, to how cops won't lie and make up evidence to get you to convict yourself. We all know these are laws and every cop show since the dawn of the cop show in the 60s or 70s has been feeding us this lie to the point where too many people don't understand it as a lie until they're faced with the reality.
loading replies
Just sit and wait it out?
Yes. That's my point. It's an abandoned building. not a maze. There's no secret tunnel exit. They have plenty of time and man power to just stand watch at the exits. Call in a hostage negotiator and get him to come out alive. Because that's part of their job. To get the criminals in jail ALIVE. Forcing a stand-off is stupid. They knew it was a cop. They knew he let go of the only person in the house. They knew the cop might be emotionally unstable. There's no reason not to consider he might take "the easy way out" as it's often put in cop shows when criminals self-terminate.
As for the other bit. I maintain I'm right and you're wrong but that's because I don't think you understand what I was saying. Shock and surprise don't have any thing to do with what I'm referring to.
