@kellerj18 Lol the seething in these two comments is so potent. It's even better because you mentioned Lost's final when everyone knows by now that it's the biggest filter for people who have no clue what shows are trying to do with regard to their themes.
@seanmsu It's funny how everyone who recycles this comment about the ending of Lost seems to fail to understand a very simple premise of writing. The same premise that had D&D re-do the pilot for Game of Thrones after initially sharing it with a room full of HBO writers and it's that if your audience fails to understand what it is that you're trying to relay, you've simply done a bad job, especially if it's as clear as you imply it to be.
Many audience members don't want to sit down and go full nerd trying to analyze the writers' creative decisions, which is why it falls on the latter to simplify the content for the former, you can of course call anyone who doesn't share your views a mindless twit who couldn't understand what the show was trying to do but the matter of fact is that it's the show's responsibility to make the audience understand and if it fails to do that then it's no fault of the audience, it's that simple.
@jinzulen No, you are fundamentally wrong. It is not the writer's job to ensure everyone pays attention to every detail in the story that is written. If you don't want to spend the effort it takes to pay attention, then you don't deserve to understand the story to the same extent as someone who does. Those who do delve deep are rewarded and that is what a writer should do. There SHOULD be subtext, and implications, and symbolism, and references, and all sorts of deep mechanics to discover to gain a better grasp on the material. People like you who ask for explicit explanation for everything are actively ruining the art that makes television, and storytelling in general, so fantastic. The funniest part about the Lost example is actually that both are done, there is so much artistic, deep storytelling going on with the shots, the way they tell each character's story, the music, and the interactions in different times but then they also literally just explain the whole thing to people with Christian Shepherd telling Jack exactly what happens. The fact that people can actually watch that and still not understand is fucking hilarious.
@seanmsu "No, you are fundamentally wrong."
You're entitled to believe that but considering a room full of writers who do this sort of thing for a living and D&D themselves seem to agree with me on this, I'm inclined to believe otherwise.
"It is not the writer's job to ensure everyone pays attention to every detail in the story"
Eh? It kind of is their job to ensure that said details are clearly presented to the audience, at least the consequential ones. Failing to do so and instead treating them like easter-eggs that you must secretly inject into the work and have fans hunt for doesn't make you a contemporary genius, it just means you've failed at properly doing your job.
"If you don't want to spend the effort it takes to pay attention, then you don't deserve to understand the story to the same extent as someone who does"
So let me get this straight, anyone who doesn't interpret a work of art the same way that you do is therefore someone who isn't paying attention and thus doesn't deserve to understand and appreciate the story? Narcissist much? Get over yourself, mate.
Interpretations vary greatly from one person to another, each person presents their own perspective on how they viewed said work of art, that's the beauty of it, it means something different depending on who's engaging it.
"Those who do delve deep are rewarded"
Yes, usually by mundane trivia but what do I know, I'm just a peasant who can not observe the layers of complexity that your highness is able to grasp.
"People like you who ask for explicit explanation for everything are actively ruining the art that makes television, and storytelling in general, so fantastic."
Please, spare me the sanctimonious attitude and refer yourself to my comment on interpretations.
Man, every time you respond to one of my comments it's always the same faint sense of anger and narcissism that I (and by extension of the likes, others as well) didn't share your feelings for a particular episode, it's always this high-horse bullshit that you just spewed into that last comment of yours: "I liked it and if you didn't, you clearly don't understand it".
In this reality - shocking as it may come to you - people possess differing opinions and takes on things, you don't have to accept those opinions but you've no right to belittle someone in some attempt to sell yourself as intellectually superior for seeing things only your excellency can apparently perceive.
@seanmsu No offence, but the ending of Lost is arguably the worst ending in tv history. It was horrible. Sure, you can explain it away by saying "zomg all these retarded no-direction random things make more sense now" but the fact is that even the writers have said they were unsure of the direction it was taking and what to do next. The ending itself was a tack-on as an explanation was NEVER intended. And NEVER explaining it, would have been better than the shitshow they came up with.
I haven't seen GoT season 8 yet, but I just had to comment on the Lost thing, It's such a cliche argument. "You can't understand what they were trying to tell you!", sure, they suck a storytelling. It's like saying "You don't like Memento because you just dont understand they beauty of horrible writing". It's a retarded argument. Unless you want to cater to the 1% of fans who actually wants to go full Nerd on these things (sadly I'm one of them), but Lost clearly did not. It was mainstream. As is GoT... Oh wait, A Song of Ice and Fire. Even the name tells you how mainstream this went. :)
@seanmsu Ah yes, going for the old "I'm smarter than you" high horse bullshit in argumentative discussion. Gets em' every time.
@jinzulen
Don't worry about those people saying that you or we did not understand what they were going for. They don't understand that's there's a difference between Not Understanding and understanding but thinking what they were going for sucked. I may not have disliked it as much as you but I was disappointed.
@jinzulen What makes you think D&D agree with you on this?
The details are clearly presented but it is not their job to make the viewer pay attention to what is important, especially in a show with so many moving parts. They aren't Easter eggs, they're heavy implications and story elements hidden just under the surface that are supposed to get viewers to dig deeper to think about which in turn gets them more invested in the show.
"So let me get this straight, anyone who doesn't interpret a work of art the same way that you do is therefore someone who isn't paying attention and thus doesn't deserve to understand and appreciate the story? Narcissist much? Get over yourself, mate." No one said you had to interpret what was delivered the same way as me, the point I was making was that if you uncover more information then you have a more informed opinion on the material. I don't believe that we have to agree completely on the specifics at all. I do think it's hilariously ironic that you think I'm narcissistic when your entire point is that the writers have to cater to your attention span. The writers don't owe anything to anyone and it's their right to be as vague or blunt as they see fitting for the story they're telling.
Let me ask you something simple. When you watch 2001:A Space Odyssey (or The Tree of Life or The Thin Red Line or Citizen Kane or Lawrence of Arabia or whatever classic based mainly on symbolism and subtext) do you think it's bad? because from what you're arguing anything that doesn't spell things out specifically for you is trash and if they expect the viewer to delve deeper for the reward then they're being elitist or something. I understand that it comes off as pompous when people tell you this but that's how things that go deep generally come off. If you like a simple, straightforward, spelled out story that stops to explain things constantly then you're welcome to enjoy that but saying things that expect the audience to think a bit are bad because they're unclear is ignorant and damaging to the art of making a story.
@fidomuh How can you watch the entirety of Lost and still not understand that the minor story plots were not the thing you were supposed to focus on. I want you to tell me specifically what part of the Finale of Lost that you thought was bad or inconsistent with the rest of the show. I fucking love having this conversation with Lost "fans." As I said with the other guy, the writers don't owe you shit. If you didn't understand or got frustrated with storylines not being delved into more that isn't their problem. They made a show about the nature of human connection and how it operates within unexpected groups and the finale was an absolutely perfect end note to that theme. If you watched 6 long seasons of Lost without realizing that then I feel bad for you.
@maeldun Dude, he thinks the last season was purely going for shock value and was inconsistent with the rest of the story... It wasn't... like at all. The point of the show is to have a conversation about power and how it looks can change unpredictably from person to person and have rippling effects for many people who have nothing to do with the person wielding power. That seems pretty damn consistent to what happened this season.
@jinzulen With respect to all the replies that attempt to compare the ending of Game of Thrones to that of Lost, that which is worse will be determined by which is used in comparison to the next bad ending.
I personally enjoyed the ending of Lost and agree with @jinzulen that this is "arguably one of the worst series finales in the history of television".
@jinzulen If anything, this isn't harsh enough.
At least we got a bit of a awrning when they butchred Daenerys character the Episode before. There weren't many ways out of that
@seanmsu It's not about being frustrated or feeling entitled. Like i said, the writers themselves said in multiple interviews that the tack-on ending of Lost was NEVER intended. An explanation was NEVER intended. And specifically? The entire premise. The presentation. The "explanation". It was all bad. Especially compared to how good most of the seasons were.
If that makes you feel like "I just didn't get it"; Good for you. Enjoy what you will mate, I just think it sucked Major Domo ballsack.
... And I still haven't seen the ending of GoT... Guess I'll read the last book first :P
Review by KhalilBlockedParent2019-05-20T01:22:54Z
I am incredibly grateful to Game of Thrones for this adventure I have found myself sucked into for some years now. I am grateful for all the emotions it brought me since day one, bitter and sweet alike. I am grateful for all the laughs, all the tears, all the jokes and gags, every single bit of it, I really am grateful and appreciative of it all. It's been just... wonderful.
That said, I am feeling robbed and betrayed right about now. This ending is arguably one of the worst series finales in the history of television and trust me I realize how bold of a statement that is. The terrible violations the characters have suffered this season, the lack of proper resolution to many of the plots and narratives developed over seasons worth of buildup, the seeking of shock value at the expense of quality writing... that and much much more solidified this as an absolute disappointment of a finale, as opposed to the marvel wrap it could've given this cultural phenomenon.
This episode does have its positives, as always the score, acting and cinematography are perfectly performed but I just do not think it's nearly enough to compensate for how lackluster the writing has been, as much as I wish they did. Oh well, sad as it may be, I'll just hold on to the good stuff and hope that GRRM's book, once finished, will tackle the ending in a more coherent, more respectful and more meaningful way. It's been real y'all...
P.S: I'll leave this here lest some people jump me again. This comment is a representation of my own personal opinion, I am entitled to one just as all of you are. If you enjoyed this season and felt this finale delivered what you were looking for then more power to you mate, but that doesn't nullify my opinion nor does it make yours any valid. If you want to discuss or challenge my views, I'd be more than happy to engage you on that basis but if all you have to offer are petty remarks then please keep them to yourself.