Altered Carbon 2018

@benhanchett completely agree with that assessment, thankfully I pulled out after 20 minutes into the first episode. it's as if they watched black mirror and the matrix and thought "hey, let's go for it."

@outspoken @benhanchett both of you completely missing the point that the story is based on a book which came out 16 years ago. Don't watch it if you don't want to, you're only doing a disservice to yourselves, but judging with only 20 minutes of viewing is worse than worse.

@raptor75 i know it's based on a book. I also read articles about how the show diverges from the book so what's your point?

@benhanchett my reply was probably more for @outspoken

@raptor75 Watched the entire first season and I agree with both @outspoken and @benhanchett comments.

@benhanchett It's not particularly fast paced but I do think it comes together well in the end.

Boring visual candy mixed with some nudity and poor acting. Very dissapointed in this show. I fell asleep during two episodes. The story is all over the place, and ones does not even know, nor really care, what the hell is going on. How this has a 79% rating (as of this writing), is beyond me. It should be way down in the 60s.

@benhanchett It seems that way, but they really didn't - Btw: It is based on books which made that unlikely to begin with...

@player8472 , just being based on a book doesn't mean they didn't grasp at straws. You can cherry pick stuff that may have been better explained or setup in the books.

@benhanchett well, slow-burn is characteristics of cyberpunk, a genre that has existed way before Black Mirror. They turned Season 2 to be some kind of action adventure shit because of dumb Transformer-loving reviews like this one.

@xaliber lol, hope you are doing well. Anyway my complaint with the show had nothing to with the show having lack of action. My criticism was more the rapid introduction of technology that seems to overshadow the entire premise of the show. Not too mention the show didn't clearly explain why Takeshi? The show implied that his group was some badasses but didn't explain how being a badasses will help solve a whodunnit. Not to mention the side story with the Hotel AI. Seem there's was a subplot of an AI revolt but sadly that resolved so quickly, so felt it was a waste of my time.

@benhanchett not every story elements are Chekhov's guns. That's what makes a world-building: the character is just one person living a world that's moving simultaneously with him - just like real world, you know? Fargo (the series and movie) is similar. So is Blade Runner (the movie, particularly the second). If it's not directly relevant to the character growth, let them stay on background. This is not a Marvel movie where everything, even a conspiracy behind the screen, has to be shoved on your face.

That said, the three last episodes are weak and didn't go the way the likes of BR usually go.

@xaliber bruh the AI story didn't stay in the background that's my complaint. It ended! So all we were left with is the main story. I am not disagreeing with you so I don't understand what point you're trying to get across. I didn't like how as you said the show went Marvel: it was about the sleeves then seemed to turn to plot armor with clones, cybernetics, and controlling two sleeves at once. All those elements within about 3 episodes took away from the deeper emotional connection the show was operating under in the beginning. That and like I said I I didn't they defined the Takeshi role well enough

@benhanchett no, I didn't say the show went Marvel - I meant the show didn't go like Marvel where every plot point needs to be explained, on how they relate to our main character. The show also didn't go like Marvel where in Marvel universe the main character is a person we need to relate to, someone we can know better with their own love story, and define where his position is in this world. The show isn't like that. Well at least the first season isn't like that. The second season is becoming more like Marvel movies with Takeshi being obsessed with his love and all that.

The first season is more similar to Fargo or Blade Runner. Have you watched either of those two? In those films the characters are just guys who live in their world, doing their thing, who we happen to watch. They get jumbled into some stuff bigger than their own. In Altered Carbon's case, the bigger stuff is the whole affair with sleeves (clones and cybernetics are part of it aren't they?), that's why we get the sidestory of Ortega's grandma. Takeshi just happen to be some tough guy, ex-Envoy, who struggles in this kind of world.

@xaliber Yes I have seen Blade Runner many times. I would agree with except for the fact they never really made the connection with how being an Envoy would help you in being a detective. That's the thing. Blade Runner worked because you thought Decker was just a a detective then he got assigned to this craziness. He was the constant we thought until the end where it may not be. Compare that with Altered Carbon where trying to learn Takeshi while trying to learn the cop ( forgot his name) all while the constant of the sleeves is usurped by more tech in each episode. Just seemed like a video game with power ups.

@benhanchett they mentioned about Envoy having stronger analytical skills and stronger memories in early episodes, maybe between eps 1 to 4. There's an episode where Tak is shown gazing, piecing the puzzles in his mind. Why and how they became that way is not explained though, and there's no reason to just like there's no reason to explain replicants' superhuman power. I'm not sure what do you mean by sleeves usurped by more tech, because I don't remember any tech upgrades in season 1? The only upgrade is Ortega (the cop)'s arm upgrade because she lost one.

@xaliber, they had sleeves. They show talked about the ethical and spiritual questions of sleeves. Ok cool.....they have Ortega cybernetic upgrade....ok.....few episodes later Takeshi's sister has clones.. which seem to had the knowledge of the original. A step up over sleeves in my opinion. Then another episode I'm trying to remember to exact phrasing....because Takeshi said there's no way someone can pilot two sleeves at the same time.Then next episode....hey luckily the client's son has a machine that does just this now the pilot armor can get us to the floating city.

@benhanchett they explained about clones very early in the season, I think it's in the eps. 1 or 2. Meths (long life rich persons) always have clones, that's why Bancroft (the client) is speaking in his body when he asked Tak to find out who murdered him (his previous same body). That's why they stay the same age after hundreds years. It's the reason Tak dislikes meths, and the same reason crazy moustache guy worships them - they find it unnatural and only rich people can afford it. There's a scene where Tak and the crazy guy are having this exact conversation. Tak's sister only moves her consciousness between clones in rapid succession.

As for the two sleeves at once, are you talking about the way there's two Taks near the end of the season? In that case I agree that's an upgrade, thanks for reminding me. And the show could've explained that sort of upgrade better because it feels kinda forced. Three last episodes are weak, as I said. But the rest are fine.