1x10 Sins of the Father

@elexen He was getting desperate after she mentioned that not everyone believed that Doakes was the killer and that would be the reason why Batista would be coming into town the next day.

@gloom8 They still need evidence to prove any of it and they didn't have anything solid to prove his guilt.

@rhaeneris Trúe old Dex would never done this maybe he got the Vaccine in this Universe XD

@rhaeneris I think it relies on his disguise slipping away faster that he expected and a mix of new circumstantial evidence and the strength of Laguerta's case against Dexter. But last two or four seasons were pretty messy, I personally don't even remember what she had against him. Probably something significant if he was going to kill her for that. Maybe you remember?

To be fair, if it was the old show I would expect him to be fine by the end. Angela would have being killed by Kurt/Harrison. Batista would have bulletproof evidence against Dexter, but die in car accident. Logan could have being easily blowed up in the station. Not by Dexter, of course. He would be innocent as always.
What I'm saying is that the show never was The Talented Mr. Ripley (book). So him magically getting away before and here magically screwing up seems pretty on par.

@gloom8 I rewatched the show before NB aired and LaGuerta's case against him wasn't strong either. She tried setting a trap for him by releasing one of the men who killed his mother and he barely got away. He killed her because she knew she almost got him and she was trying to get a warrant to check calls between him and Deb (which no one else knew about and 10 years later this data would not be kept). With her dead they again had nothing concrete enough to put him away.

As I said in another comment, I expected Dexter would die. I never thought this would end with him riding off into the sunset. I just think it was done poorly, I hate that they had Harrison kill him, and I hate they they completely vilified him at the end, when we know Dexter is more complex than that. I don't like that the show tried to make the fans feel guilty for rooting for him by overriding his previous characterisation. Are we not allowed to like and relate to complex fictional characters now? This kind of moralising is really self-righteous and damaging, because it's essentially saying only a certain type of trauma victim deserves sympathy, only the ones who respond correctly. I just wish they had shown a little more respect to Dexter and his journey, instead of sanctimoniously punishing him and the audience.

@rhaeneris One thing I do remember is that Dexter didn't killed Laguerta. Well, she died because of him, but not by his hands directly.

My point was about either Dexter behaving irrationally by trying to get rid of Laguerta or her actually having some valuable info/proof. Either one gives enough reason in my opinion for him to act quickly or sloppy in the station depending on his previous actions in OG series.

" I hate they they completely vilified him at the end, when we know Dexter is more complex than that."
See, this why we have a different perspective on the finale. I'm fully on board with that approach. When og series started I was intrigued by the idea of watching actual serial killer mindset unfold. A true psychopath or at least someone with a lack of real emotions. So the kill is the real goal, his victims being bad guys is just a way to reduce his trail to not alarm society to his presence. Everything else is a mascarade.
The longer show went the less this premise ring true. At some point it was retconned entirely I believe. He became a serial killer with a moral compass. They humanise him so much that sometimes he operated in the story like a vigilante that we should root for. Who was burdened by his dark passenger and seemingly had no urge to kill whatsoever. Also not getting anything from the process of killing those monsters. Did he even had that urge at that point? I don't remember. Why did he kill after that realisation? Idk maybe Harry nurture been this strong. His way of dealing with PTSD?!

This show slowly reverted him back. Not entirely and not to original status quo. Confronted urge to kill, showing him enjoying the kills, reminded the audience through Harrison why did he kill in the first place. Hiding at first that "the hunger" was always the main goal. Focus wasn't on saving people and punishing bad guys, that just a bonus, that would help with not getting caught. The human side was there too, but it only extended to his son. His love was compromised somewhat (that smile with the blade and wanting to have a partner in crime in general) but still he was shown to be sincere. You know like Cersei loved her children... and that's why she cared enough to attempt to mercy kill them

If we not disturbed by his actions than he is not a real monster and if he isn't a monster than there are no complexity to him or his story to begin with.
When Angela watches footage of his dismembered victims that is disturbing. In that moment they don't look like bad guys that got what they deserved. You look at that and as with irl serial-killers tell yourself: "I can't believe a human being could do something like that. And then just go about it's day. Pretending to be one of us. Go to the movies, eat in cafes, smile and have a family and neighbors that didn't notice a single thing off about the guy". She can't believe that is the same guy that stayed overnight. I don't think reminder that Bay Harbor Butcher only kills the bad guys would calm you in similar situation. Hell, he was going for that knife if Logan didn't showed up

His routine with Kurt was messy, gory, unpleasant, unceremonious with the bags. No cool shots of dropping a bag into the water and watching it fall on the ocean floor. No job well done feeling. This guy and his actions are disturbing to watch from outside perspective. He had interesting journey to follow, but the moment POV shifts from Dexter - he deserves death sentence. Death for his own sake as a mercy.

"it's essentially saying only a certain type of trauma victim deserves sympathy, only the ones who respond correctly."
The guy from the end of OG series isn't dangerous he just lost. He doesn't gives your the creeps. Original ending would feel like something unfair. Creator wanted that type of ending - he brought back that type of character from early seasons. No, actually he just lampshaded the stuff that wasn't focus on anymore and brought outside perspective to the front.
Yes, trauma victim that turns into serial killer doesn't deserves sympathy. Do you have any for Kurt? How is Dexter different? Why Dexter should be treated differently?

@gloom8 See, this why we have a different perspective on the finale. I'm fully on board with that approach.
Then there is no point in continuing this conversation, because I feel that is a fundamental misunderstanding of Dexter as a character. The OG show was an 8 season long character study that explored themes of humanity, trauma, violence, growth, development of empathy, justice vs. revenge. NB simply regressed all of Dexter's development back to the start and turned him into a completely different character to force a narratively unsatisfying outcome. There should be consequences for bad actions, but there is a difference between justice as conceptually fitting in the narrative and punishment that also puritanically scolds the audience and intentionally leaves them feeling guilty because they’ve been fooled all along.

Yes, trauma victim that turns into serial killer doesn't deserves sympathy
This is such a basic view. We're talking about fictional characters here. They are in a story. This is why, for example, you can enjoy and root for characters of all kinds - not only “pure,” gentle, innocent, morally “righteous” ones, but also compromised, difficult, damaged ones and frankly, even for unquestionable villains. I don’t like the idea that darkness or difficult themes or questionable morality instantly equates to the necessity to condemn and preach at your audience. It's is so boring. Such black and white thinking doesn't make for engaging storytelling.

This message is so damaging and I’ve actually seen comments where this concept has hurt and caused people to self-blame because they feel like they are being told they should never try and that they aren’t worth loving or even worthy of survival when a narrative damns a given character to brokenness if they’re not perfect pictures of innocent victimhood. The concept of - everything you attempt to do, no matter what, is wrong, because you are irrevocably ruined is ugly.

@rhaeneris I feel that is a fundamental misunderstanding of Dexter as a character <...> The OG show was an 8 season long character study that explored themes of humanity, trauma, violence, growth, development of empathy, justice vs. revenge
In theory yes in the actual show not so much. Why does he kill at the start of the OG show and why does kill at the end of it?
How is he different to you personally between OG show and this one?
Why do you believe that you being fooled or scolded?!

you can enjoy and root for characters of all kinds - not only “pure,” gentle, innocent, morally “righteous” ones, but also compromised, difficult, damaged ones and frankly, even for unquestionable villains.
Oh, I love and enjoy the ride with those types of characters, for some of them I root until the bitter end with them: Eren from Attack on Titan; Walter from Breaking Bad; Don from Mad Men; Bojack from Bojack Horseman etc. For some I root to get better, for some to grow, other interesting because you see them set the world on fire and you ride along side with them.
I feel like you trying to align my views with some checkboxes for easy dismissal on why I don't root for Dexter.

I don’t like the idea that darkness or difficult themes or questionable morality instantly equates to the necessity to condemn and preach at your audience. It's is so boring. Such black and white thinking doesn't make for engaging storytelling.
That the thing, there more we humanise Dexter's character the less engaging his story becomes. If the show asked how a person like this should exist? What would you do in his place? What more he could possibly do to coexist? What more do we want from the monster? Then yes, that would be very interesting show. With grey moral area. OG show had an interesting premise that was turned into procedural drama with a Batman somewhere on the equator.

this concept has hurt and caused people to self-blame because they feel like they are being told they should never try
Concept is simple. Dexter to me isn't a show/character about trauma survivor. It only has a hammer. And your take requires some finesse from the writing that is beyond this show old or new.

So once again do you feel this way about Kurt or Trinity? Do you treat those trauma victims with the same compassion?
If yes tell me how. If not why Dexter is the exception to black and white rule?