1x07 Left Behind

@2ls1t Sure, but not everything has to center around being gay either. I've said it before, but it would've been better if Riley was the straight one. Ellie already forms a lesbian relationship later on, so instead of making every female companion she gets close to become some unrealistic romantic option, how about it portrays the fact that not every woman is homosexual? Would've been a nice direction to say, have Ellie make a move on her, get turned down because Riley doesn't swing that way, and then move on. It'd do well in showing us that yes Ellie is into other girls as a sort of foreshadow or character build for the future, while also not making it seem like some sort of gay wet fantasy.
The overexposure is very prevalent, we already had the whole Bill episode. Yeah, it's "woke."

TLOU2 is still one of my favorite games despite this, but still maybe accept the clear pandering intentions of the writers and producers here instead of denying it.

@2ls1t I'm black and it's just becoming irritating and predictable what they are doing on nearly every show.

@2ls1t These are the same kind of people who would complain about black people being in movies one century ago. Deep down they know they’re out of touch and behind the curve, but it takes years to realize that. It’s fucking embarrassing, I apologize on the behalf of straight white men.

@jordyep I don't know about you but as a white Canadian born in 1980 nobody I know ever had a problem with black or gay people. I grew up loving black media i.e. musicians, comedians and movie stars, most from the American media. Comedy shows like In Living Color were the best of the best, and no stereotype was off limits. Cultural exchange was common and celebrated, and nobody cried "appropriation." A Canadian comedy show Kids In The Hall had a gay cast member that participated in skits that poked fun at gays, e.g. in one of their famous skits "Running F****t" which can be viewed on YouTube. Gay lobby groups praised the inclusion. Everyone had fun laughing at themselves and others and nobody had hate or fear or embraced victimhood for social advantage. Things are different now thanks to crazy "woke" liberals imagining and inserting division where it was almost completely eradicated. I truly wish you could have experienced it because it was a wonderful time.

@dw11 I understand that the world may seem like a magical place growing up, but I think you still lack some maturity if you think that acceptance and inclusion is about ‘laughing at gay stereotypes’. Maybe place yourself in their position for a second. Would you feel included if there were no straight white men in media, except Ron Swanson from Parks and Recreation? So only the most exaggerated, stereotypical version of a straight white man. Does that seem right or inclusive to you? Gay people exist everywhere and they deserve stories told about them, you’re gonna have to mature and adapt to that. Or you can just stick to movies and tv shows specifically targeted at people like you, but simultaneously leave no cultural footprint whatsoever, such as The Terminal List or anything produced by The Daily Wire. The choice is yours.

@jordyep I won't respond with as much condescension, but I'd again say I think you're late to the party. As I experienced, and with some research about the 60s through 90s you may find, battles were fought and won decades ago and minorities of all stripes became well-tolerated, represented and nearly universally accepted in western mainstream culture in all types of roles. My generation was blessed to witness an age of true liberalism that included a high degree of freedom, cultural exchange and acceptance. Sure, there were occasional challenges but we figured it out and intolerance was quickly relegated to the wayside and usually without protest or violence. Now, divisions are reimagined, pushed and amplified largely by privileged, straight, white liberals who view themselves as saviors. But is their compassion genuine and perpetuation of feelings of victimization helpful? We might consider the words of black civil rights leader Malcolm X, who warned:

"The white liberals, who have been posing as our friends, have failed us. The white liberal is the worst enemy to America and the worst enemy to the black man." ... "White liberals are those who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the black man as our 'friend' to get our sympathy, our allegiance and our minds. The white liberal attempts to use us politically against white conservatives, so that anything the black man does is never for his own good, never for his advancement, never for his own progress, he's only a pawn in the hands of the white liberal." ... "In America the history of white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make us think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white liberal. The only way that our problems will be solved is when the black man wakes up, cleans himself up, stands on his own two feet, stops begging the white liberal and takes immediate steps to do for ourselves the things that we have been waiting on the white liberal to do for us." ... "The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race." Malcolm X was assassinated 2 days after expressing the last quote.

It isn't just straight, white men with conservative values that are pushing back against a new age of division. Today in the west minorities have every equal opportunity and more to succeed, and it's impossible to deny many do extraordinarily well. The victim culture pushed by liberals, I believe, hinders rather than helps their progress, as Malcolm X found. We won't likely ever agree completely as we each have different experiences and evolutionary paths, and that's okay!

@dw11 You might want to do some more research if you think that the 80s were the true age of liberalism for all social groups. As I already pointed out, people being complacent with their social position isn’t the same as true freedom or acceptance.

And you’re right, we are on different evolutionary paths, because people like you are likely to go extinct sooner rather than later. Young, educated and/or culturally intelligent people will typically accept and embrace inclusion, so you’re fighting for a cause which is increasingly becoming a non-issue year by year. In fact, most people already don’t care, so maybe ask yourself who’s creating the ‘new age of division’ here. I pray you’ve come to your senses in a few decades when nobody’s even bothered to bring this up anymore.

@2ls1t As someone who is completely fine with this show (and knowing it in advance too since I've known the game for 10 years), and being white, what does race have to do with this shit? You're no better than them and adding to the polarization.

@jordyep I'm basically a rational liberal minus victim culture. I find it a bit puzzling your inclusion wouldn't seem to include me. A 2015 article in The Atlantic titled "Microaggressions and the Rise of Victimhood Culture" highlights an observation that victim culture is most likely to arise in societies with a high degree of equality. So one could say the recent surge is a sign we are approaching peak equality. Proceeding to a purist equality for 100% of people appears to be the fantastic goal of the modern alt-left, but may ultimately be impossible to achieve as it would take infinite time, energy and money to cater to every miniscule minority (and they seem to be mired in struggle over whether to legitimize significant individually-detrimental and malsocial ideas and afflictions). They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions... To our credit, we haven't yet made litterboxes mandatory everywhere for furries, so there are apparently some brakes on the train.

I think another major contributor to our newly-redivided/victim culture is the rise of the internet and social media in the information age. In the past, we all shared the same media so we learned to tolerate each other and resolve and accept differences. People often made and received facetious jabs in good spirit, knowing at the end of the day we accepted each others' existence. Spicy dialogue was endemic (see e.g. Jane's Addiction and Ice-T "Don't call me N**, Whitey / Whitey, N**" performances) and it helped us share our humanity and feel more equal. Now we don't all share the same media and people are able to remain in more divided circles and are not as inclined to come together and mend controversy.

It is a dangerous and interesting time. Whatever happens, YOLO and then you die so try to enjoy it.

@dw11 You’re pulling the ‘the inclusive people are excluding me’ card? Sure. Next time you’re gonna call yourself a liberal, don’t pull from the incel playbook.

Also, you don’t need to lecture me about equality or victimhood culture, I’m very well informed and it’s even within my field of academic expertise. Trust me, I’ve read plenty of studies about that. However, none of them used the amount of people saying the N-word at a Jane’s Addiction concert as a form of measurement, so what do they know. Nevertheless, those studies came to the conclusion that racial/gender/sexual equality in modern societies are still improving decade by decade, despite there still being a long way to go. Some of your examples and previous statements illustrate that pretty well.

@jordyep I can agree things can improve in the wings of western society, however they've already come a very long way, particularly in the mainstream, and it isn't as bad as modern liberals, particularly the far-left, think, in my opinion. Thanks for the convo!

Tess, Joel, Mr. Adler, Mrs. Adler, Marlon, Florence, Tommy, Maria were all straight not to mention nameless faceless characters we have seen along the way. I mean children don’t appear out of no where.

@dw11 Don't bother. You're trying to have a conversation and typical left, only want to bash and shout, screaming how out of touch every white male is, and how we should all apologise for the next millennium of crimes that we're bound to commit..

@2ls1t YES! Just let Ellie be happy for five goddamn minutes without making it into a political statement, jesus fucking christ.

@2ls1t no need to project dude

@kastell I don't get that from the DLC game I think that both of them were lesbians on the DLC.