Absolutely beautiful. At the time, Trek was able to do stories that other shows couldn't (in today's TV landscape that's far less true) and this is a prime example. It works so well because Hallie Todd's adorable child-like performance, and Brent Spiner being able to play off that so well. Picard gets a great scene standing up to the Admiral, too.
Certainly made me cry, and laugh a lot at Riker's brief scene.
[4.4/10] Welcome to Filler: The Episode. What a waste. There is so much promising material in this one, so many things that could otherwise be really cool or interesting, but it gets pretty interminable at points and so on the nose and obvious and uncomfortable in places that the entire thing falls apart. Let’s talk about the three worst scenes of the episode, two of which should be the best scenes.
The first is the one where the Platonians screw with Kirk and Spock in order to try to get McCoy to agree to stay with them. It goes on forever. We get it -- these guys are cruel and will use torture and humiliation to get what they want. Having Kirk and Spock do fifteen different varieties of some horrible or embarrassing thing does nothing to drive that point home any more. It’s a big instance where it felt like this episode was running short, and this was an easy place to put padding.
The other side of the coin is that this should have been a highlight of the episode, and not just the ironic “this is garish, entertaining garbage” sense. Seeing dignified Captain Kirk and stoic Spock have to dance and play should be, alternatively, unnerving or fun. “Plato’s Stepchildren” never really hits either mark (though their initial little jig gets a bit of it). Instead, it’s all so over the top and lengthy that it robs the sequence of any power.
The second is the scene where Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Alexander (the little person “jester” of the other Platonians) come up with the scheme to give themselves the godlike powers. On a minor note, it opens up all sorts of plot hole problems when having telekinesis would be super useful down the line, but whatever. More importantly, it is just an unending scream of exposition and repetition. Again, the thrust of the scene is clear -- we can use this chemical to out-power the bad guys. It’s a little dumb, but it’s not the dumbest treknobabble solution to a problem these three have come up with.
The rub is that they explain it and explain it and then explain it again just to make sure you understand every niggling detail. The script is flabby as hell, robbing this big solution scene of having momentum because the show gets so bogged down in explication.
Then there’s the last sequence featuring the addition of Uhura and Nurse Chapel, which has a myriad of problems. Let’s get this part out of the way first -- this is another instance of Trek using something very rape-y as an incidental plot point, and not really having the facility or tone as a series to handle it. That’s a big problem and makes a lot of those closing scenes tough to watch (and not in the way the show intended). It’s a recurring issue on the show, which is troubling, but I try to make allowances for this just being one of those Sixties things that are a little horrifying now but were taken for granted at the time. It’s still pretty rough though.
(Though hey, credit where credit is due, the scene also includes the first interracial kiss on television, so there’s that.)
But even apart from the broader social issues that scene raises, it also doesn’t work for its intended purpose. It should be horrifying to watch people forced to be sexual with one another or torture one another against their will, and in different hands, you could explore that in a really interesting way. (See: Jessica Jones). Something like turning Nurse Chapel’s dreams of being with Spock into a nightmare because of the lack of consent could be a legitimately chilling and interesting thing to examine.
“Plato’s Stepchildren” just uses it for set dressing though, just something else that escalates the danger and shows the Platonians are bad guys. We already knew that, and it shortchanges the characters at the center of the sequence. Nevermind that the lines and acting are over the top and overdone, and again, go on forever, taking away and zip or poignancy that they might otherwise have.
Again, there’s some decent material buried within the episode. I love the character of Alexander. The actor gives a good performance, and there’s some real pathos to him, being made to think he is something lesser and subject to the whims of those around him. His desire not to become a god like the Platonians but just to be taken away from them, to be anything but them, is heart-rending. The show again lays it on too thick with his attempt on the Platonian leader and Kirk’s usual effort at speechifying at the end of the episode, but there is, as usual, the germ of something good.
There’s also the germ of something worthwhile in Bones having to choose between honoring Kirk’s wishes that he not give in to the Platonians demands and sparing his friends from their torture. The decision doesn’t carry the weight that it should because the “tortures” are all so miscalibrated, but it’s a legitimate idea.
It’s also really frustrating that the episode basically squanders getting Kirk and Spock to be able to sing and dance and do other goofy stuff. They could go really fun and bonkers with the whole thing (something the show’s done in prior “everyone’s acting funny for reasons beyond their control” episodes) but instead the results just feel like a bad local talent show. Nevermind the fact that the cast’s ability to successfully mime being pulled around via telekinesis varies widely throughout the episode.
The theme of “Plato’s Stepchildren” is clear -- even people supposedly devoted to classic philosophy and the mind can be corrupted by power -- Kirk and the Platonian leader basically announce as such at the end of the episode. But it’s a trite lesson, one Star Trek has hit several times before, and the buffoonery at the center and numerous, needless reaction shots all make “Plato” feel like a thirty minute story that left the producers stalling for time. There’s some good idea and good scenes, but for the most part, this one is a mess, and a plodding mess at that.
Those dates are wrong. I have seen 4 chaperts and there is 2 more.
It's a very good episode but I wish it would have come at a later time. Maybe even next season. But with a fourth season still not confirmed and all but given I think they wanted to set some things straight.
At almost one and a half hours this is practically a double episode and I must say that this was the first time I thought it was a bit too long. The first half was OK. I was really dissapointed by Haveena's decisions. Her motives might've been honorable but I was totally with Ed when he told her what he thought about it. What follows was a predictable way the story unfolded. I'm not sure where they wanted to go with the hinted possible romance between Kelly and Bortus. Especially since they already threw a wrench in it at the end.
Everything really picks up at around the time when Gordon speaks up and calls out the Moclans for what they are. What follows are some powerfull scenes f.e. when Bortus adresses the Council as a father who's child has been abducted and tortured. Those were some hard to swallow scenes seeing Topa being tortured (kudos to Imani Pullum) and MacFarlane once again shows he's not shy to go there if it helps the plot. And I fully expected Bortus to turn around once again and kill the torturer but he didn't want his child to see him kill another.
We finally get the only logical conclusion that the Moclans are thrown out of the Union because everything else at this point would be a cheat. Going back to Gordon, I too am sick and tired of people doing bad things from a position of power and always getting away with it. (Take that sentence for what it is - I will not say anything more).
There is the surprise return of Clyden (I expected him back at some point but not so soon) but I think his change of heart is genuine and believable. Almost loosing your child can change your perspective. And he also makes peace with Kelly. Like I said - all this might've worked even better at some point in the future but who knows if there is one for the show. Now, with Clyden back that hinted thing between Bortus and Clyden makes even less sense.
And why haven't we learned about the "Traitor" on Moclus ? Is that supposed to be falling into background noise or will that be re-visited.
Couple of other notes:
Dolly Parton- it's amazing Seth pulled that of. In hindsight it seems like a given but I never would've thought she'd do it.
LaMarr's "Yeah, Sherlock" had me spill my drink. That was so delivered on point.
It's the character moments at the end that had me somewhere between smiling and, yes, tearing up. Any episode that achieves that is never a bad one in my book.
I honestly have no idea how they're pulling off a season that's this consistently good, episode after episode. Hulu/Disney better renew this show!
Take away some of the jokes and this IS classical Star Trek!
Orville continues the surprising path of character development. Again I have to admit I did not expect this to be a focal point of the show. Judging from the trailer this is a slapstick show. Seems Seth McFarlane has something more ambitious in mind. For that alone I will stay on this ride.
Addressing ethical issues and questions regarding one's individuality was very trekkie. At some point I even felt as if I was watching a Star Trek episode. Then they managed to add the (mandatory) humour without making things go bonkers or tacky. I was honestly impressed by this episode. The humour, sci-fi, drama, all different aspects of the show seem to be finally blending well together.
The first couple or episodes got me curious, but this one got me hooked. Now I definitely want to see where this show is going (probably where no man has gone before).
Another brilliant episode of tv. This season has just been knocking it out of the park imo. The wait was worth it.
Man, watching those scenes in 2025 were so hard. Honestly, as much as I want to see more of Gordon on this show, I don't think the crew made the right decision here. I hope that LaMarr was right about there being alternate timelines in this universe, because I really hope that future still exists out there in some form. I don't think he was being selfish at all.
Absolutely incredible episode, a great follow up to an earlier episode that was also really well done.
OMG :scream: give all awards… please
A lot of big issues in this episode, in the best tradition of Star Trek. It’s one of the things I like about sci-fi, and Seth does it well.
The Orville does it again!
The writers are bringing their A game in this season, not that the others were anything to whine about.
This is truly what I loved about Star Trek from days of old. Using an emphasis on culture differences between different alien races to provoke thought, challenge norms, ideas, and without smacking the viewer in the face, the question posed is 'what would you do'?
This was a beautifully crafted episode that gave it depth, the topic needed to be given the time to be laid out before the viewer for proper and due care of the subject matter. There were a number of strong ethical questions, personal, and presented the positive and also the harsh negative outcomes.
I am really enjoying The Orville this season. There is far less comedy in this season but I think personally I like the challenge of the subject matter. And yes I'd like to see some more of the comedic episodes too, but if there's a bit of this and some of that with this writing team, bring it on.
Congratulations The Orville cast, crew, writers, another superb piece.
And this, dear writers of contemporary Star Trek, is how you handle a topic like that.
I'm, sadly, not surprised about the rating (68 % at the time of writing) and some comments in regards to this episode. To each his own but I thouroghly enjoyed it.
It was past overdue that Klyden left the ship. I never liked him but there was no way after this he could have stayed. Don't think we've seen the last of him.
Bortus still hasn't performed "My Heart Will Go On"
Dammit, I just wanted to watch some science fiction. I didn't want to have to clean myself up off the floor with a mop... for 75 minutes!
(I now have more to say...)
Everyone else is going on about the child actor who plays Topa and Palicki playing Grayson. They made this episode, without a doubt.
But I want to draw more attention to Peter Macon's Bortus. The character's best episode and Macon's best acting ever in my opinion. Klyden finally shows up in season 3 only to fuck off in the very same episode! Hilarious. He wasn't badly acted, but he was more of a caricature than anything else. I get it, the episode needed him to be that way. But Bortus shows so many layers and emotional combinations. Multiple times throughout the episode I stopped sitting and watching and found myself standing and watching, and once holding my hand over my mouth and fighting back my own tears as a father. It hit so hard and so soundly, no once feeling forced or cringy or convenient to the plot. He was behaving like a real dad who had real desires and fears for his child. It's in this acting and getting to see these scenes play out on their own time that the show is partially forgiven for shamelessly running so gosh darn long!
Though I did get to the point where I was asking myself how many MORE addendums was this episode going to get? But, in the end, I'm glad that it went out the way it did. With a lot levity and positivity instead of that safe, diplomatic conclusion the Union brass felt tied to - which would have echoed the failure from the first season during the trial on Moclas. I'm also glad that Mercer and Grayson got chewed out for it. It would have felt fake if there was no repercussions. But because the fleet is at war, The Union can't afford to jail any command officers, and Moclas can't afford to lash out the way they'd like to either. That's definitely the only reason that Admiral was satisfied with her mere pound of flesh from each of them. And also why she was willing to admit that she was unofficially happy everything worked out in their favor.
Secondly, I want to draw attention to the actual footage from "About a Girl" from the first season used in the simulator. I don't know how they pulled this off, but the perfect editing required to make the new footage of Topa and Grayson blend in with something that was shot five years ago and not even look slightly uncanny is probably owed to the COVID downtime. Seth MacFarlane said that since they couldn't do any shooting or practical work, they kept refining the post-production of the episodes they were already working on while they waited for the all clear to go back to work. This has to be one of those episodes because I was looking for blurry lines and cuts in the footage or other strange artifacts that HAD to exist and it just looks like it was all shot at the same time in the same physical space. Bravo to the editing team, this is clearly your best work.
The previous episodes do have much better pacing (even Electric Sheep), no argument there. But this episode is of the storytelling caliber that Tom Hanks uses when he needs a few more Oscars to decorate his tenth mansion. The Orville set a new bar for themselves and for all modern science fiction with this story. Both in-universe and out-of-universe, this was a comeback victory several years in the making. It still blows me away that The Orville is both generously pulling from its own past to create new and continued stories while also being mature and reserved enough to not overdo it or wear out the gimmick. They (again) covered a topic of white-hot contention at one of the worst moments in American history to do so, and they did it with respect for themselves and for their viewers. And without a doubt the beaming approval of a particular Great Bird. Maybe Umbrella Academy (they kind of already are) or Doom Patrol could pull it off. I honestly don't know what else is on TV right now that could even reach such heights without a massive overhaul to their writing team.
(Obligatory remark about people who are repulsed (Klyden'd, if you will) by the topic of this episode needing to grow up and realize that they've only got so much time on this Earth to enjoy life and how they're currently, objectively failing to do so. And also morbidly curious as to why they're watching this show knowing full well what it is and then acting surprised that such topics are broached. And reminding them that if they hate this episode it's probably only going to get worse from their point of view - especially if this show is renewed for a fourth season.)
So, let me see what we got here.
A stupid "hommage" scene to Star Trek IV that wasn't funny.
A muscle packed Guinan who's given up on humanity. Since Q changed the actual timeline and not created a fantasy, how does that actually work that she doesn't recognize Picard althought they have met in "Time's Arrow" ?
A totally unnecessary car chase scene with the usual amount of smart comments. Seems like Raffi and Seven are now the comedic relief.
More on-the-nose comments about contemporary earth. I miss the old episodes where you actually had to use your brain to make connections instead of being served pre-chewed food on a silver plate.
And at the end we see Orla Brady as (supposedly) The Watcher. Something that, in my opinion, seems to be just to have a role for her to play. Because I don't believe she's anything else than the Laris we've seen so far in the normal timeline.
I do feel sorry for Annie Wersching who's only hanging around (literally) instead of actually doing something.
It's a mess at this point.
THIS is how you slowly build up your characters and world to a satisfying payoff. If you have an entire episode that takes place outside of the main universe and put all the main characters into completely different roles yet still manages to retain the core of the show and give viewers enough familiarity to hold onto, then you really do know how to write. Even if the series ends here, what a brilliant, intelligent, and enjoyable adventure The Orville is. Anyone still out there who looks at this show and thinks "Family Guy in space" is in crippling denial. This show is reaching Stargate levels of storytelling and character development now. What started as a chance foot in the door, to get the fleeting chance to stand in the shadows of science fiction giants has evolved into something that actually has the potential to be one of those giants some day.
For this episode in particular, what a delightful blend of TOS movie and Star Wars musical cues, the new ships and places that are a departure from the typical Union aesthetic, and the very best special effects I've seen on this show so far. Effects that are very detailed and eye-popping while still allowing everything to be well-lit and easy to follow. A very bold and dramatic way to cap off a season, especially the second season, and a very enigmatic ending that deliberately left threads hanging while still being satisfying and positive.
THIS show is the hopeful vision of the future we need right now. Not something that just reflects back what we currently are (because, let's face it, what we currently are is embarrassing), but one that shows up what we could be if we could stop resenting ourselves and each other for five freaking minutes. We'll always have our precious mistakes, our warts, our weirdness, but it's wrong to let those things define us. In the past, this kind of love and awareness came from a different show. A show that has sadly decided to move away from the wisdom of the human adventure. Now, thankfully, it's coming from this one. Hopefully, for a long time to come.
Once again a classic Star Trek episode that we would never see on that other show that has Star Trek only in its name.
Well you know, I'm on board with those who say the orville feels more like star trek than discovery ever will be.
mesmerizing, gripping, soul-tearing, powerful, i bitch-cried at least 5 times in intervals watching this
my dudes, i'm not gonna lie, it felt like 50 minutes of free therapy (well, almost free)
loved it. (also, why is the date on trakt set on december 7, did I have a whole ass trip and imagined the first part?)
please give an emmy to everyone involved in this
Ok, so let me see if I got it clear:
Writers took seasons (meaning years) to let Lena (Kara's best friend) gets into the "Super friends" circle, but it magically just took William A DAY to get in??? Literally he just had to ask for. ARE YOU SERIOUS?
A reporter gets full access and knowledge of the tower, resources, strategies and the people of the circle because they need the "approval of public opinion".
Please tell me that I am not the only one who think how ridiculous and reckless sounds that.
Well, that has to be one of the worst episodes I've seen. Excuse me but can you all just take a moment and stop trying to save the whole world and its population and concentrate on saving just a few people? Me, Me Me, Me, Me.
Holy f, that was the worst episode I've ever seen. I'm just finishing the show (aware of how average/cliche it is, a guilty pleasure of mine?) because I'm almost at the end anyway, but holy f that was bad
That was so heavy handed. it doesn't even count as a metaphor, you literally had a white woman stealing power from black people. And then all the white superheroes being told to care about black people & being all contrite about being white.
Very poorly written. Strong messages shouldn't feel like forced propaganda. It's just sad
Wow, way to exhume the corpse of a great show for a cheap infomercial.
Strangely boring. I mean, I really struggled to keep my attention on this, and it's hard to say exactly why. Possibly because this is a trope-filled Star Trek courtroom episode with a main character on trial, and we know they always end exactly the same way. There's no real stakes. Worf being goaded into punching Ch'Pok was quite terrible, you can see it coming a mile off and it's ridiculous that Worf has so little self control.
Most of all though, the entire concept of the episode is absurd, because the Klingons and the Federation currently have no formal diplomatic relationship. Why the hell would there be any sort of extradition hearing?
A few interesting things, though, there was a nice cinematic technique in which the actors speak directly to the camera as they fill in their statements. Ron Canada also does a pretty good job in the role of Ch'Pok, but the best moment of the whole thing is the dressing down and discussion that Sisko gives Worf at the end.
It happened again! While I remember that Kira and Shakaar get together, I have no memory of the specifics of it or this episode. So, this felt almost like a new DS9 episode to me. And while it's certainly got a lot of charm, it's not a classic by any means.
I think I quite appreciated that lack of science fiction here, this is just a quiet character piece about what it means to fall in love with someone who is not available to you, and I'm sure so many of us can relate to that. Odo is not used to any of this, so his reactions are almost childlike until he remembers himself and manages to pull things together very bravely (the fact that Worf does his job for him without him even realising seems to snap him back to reality somewhat). DS9 was a show that figured out its actors strengths and gave them material that would really work for them.
Interestingly, the big revelation here isn't Odo's confirmation of his feelings for Kira, but much moreso the feelings that Odo and Quark reveal for each other! I think these guys just genuinely love to hate each other and have a deep respect for the way the other person does things, however much they disagree with it. Those moments were the highlight of the episode for me.
The ending almost seems to suggest that Kira has figured out Odo's feelings, but that seems to be more my imagination.
At any rate, it is nice to see Kira so happy and I really love Worf and Odo bonding over their mutual desire for order. I think the real takeaway here, though, is the magnificent performance by Rene Auberjonois. Part of me wants to rate this much, much higher, but this is such a quiet and calm episode that it almost feels like it doesn't want to draw too much attention to itself.