meh. i genuinely think the writers have no idea what they're doing. there's a lot of "big moments" but i have no emotional attachment to them at this point. how do all the hosts feel about hale telling them to transcend? we haven't gotten nearly enough insight into how the hosts view this world, hell we don't even have a single host character to relate to in that aspect besides maybe william. everything happens because bernard magically saw it happen in his supersim. there's no explanation for why the world can't be saved, we just know it can't. we were wondering what was going on with christina, knowing this show would give some kind of twist, and there it is, she's "not real"... uh... okay? was i supposed to drop my jaw in awe? so what's the explanation for the people she interacted with earlier? why was hale visiting her? i guess that's a remaining mystery for the finale. i really don't care anymore...
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@zachbrownies My thoughts exactly.
Every season after the first one was worse than the previous one, but this one is inexcusably bad. All exposition, a myriad "just-so" plot points and paper-thin characters (maybe with the exception of the Williams), like a glorified fanfic.
Why was Maeve even fighting Hale? Maeve ultimately wanted to go back to The Sublime and to her daughter, and Hale was forcing everyone to "transcend" anyway. :thinking:
Regarding Christina/Dolores, she's like an invisible DM (Dungeon Master) program run from inside the Tower's supercomputer (I assume), without a physical host body. Presumably, all the characters she thought she was "physically" interacting with were also virtual.
"One crewman. You have 82 others safely aboard." But Reed and Archer are out there. The Enterprise has a compliment of 83 crewmen. So 81 crewmen are aboard. Scans didn't show that?
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@miclaymon He meant 1 will die if they jettison the plating; Archer can return, so 82 will live.
I'm mostly annoyed that this still wasn't even the actual conclusion. What the hell do we need another season for? I also don't see why humanity in the real world is apparently guaranteed to go instinct after all of this (according to Christina aka "Dolores" during her final dialogue).
Hell, while we're talking about that, how can she speak of having seen the best and worst of humanity and not acknowledge that the hosts did the exact same thing to humanity when the humans were basically hosts themselves with narratives written for them?Considering that the hosts knew humans were intelligent, sentient, beings, where in the original park pretty much none of the humans knew that the hosts weren't simply robots without actual feelings one could argue that what the hosts did was actually far worse (at least, the hosts in the real world).
Lastly, why does she need one "final" test? As a test for what? The good that can be found in humanity? Weren't we just talking about seeing the beauty in this world? The ancient order in the chaos? What does she need another test/game for?
How do you spend an entire season showing hosts are just as flawed as humans (hell, this was one of the main reasons Hale wanted the hosts to transcend and not waste their time around humans in the city) and then not acknowledge it at the end and instead focus on the humans being the ones that need to face a final test? At least during her dialogue with Ted. It just makes no sense to me.Maybe I completely misunderstood as she does mention "maybe this time we'll set ourselves free" and it's not so much a test for humanity but for all sentient beings (and would any human she created from memory in her virtual park actually still be a human to begin with?).
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@erebos To elaborate on humans in the sublime (I updated my original comment to reflect this), for as far as I understood Christine is inserted into the Sublime by Hale near the end. It's there where she decides humanity deserves a final "risky" test before she gives up on them and then describes how she can recreate them all from memory just as she did with Ted.
So from how I see it the Westworld we see at the end is a virtual one, in the Sublime, featuring both "humans" (created from memory) and hosts. The host part is guessing on my end.
"My death comes without apology." But who is the one-eyed man who told them that Ragnar really is dead? Anyone?
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@mg_grey it's Odin (the God)
Everything was pretty good until the forest scene what the hell?? Prisoner exchange was a very clever idea, I'll give them that. I would like to see what Gilead would do with Fred? Poetic justice, he would suffer because of the laws he helped writing. But no, as a group of 30 women let's just chase him in the woods and beat him to death. Even cut his finger and send his ring to his wife?
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@hymntothesea Yes, they are afraid of the eyes. Nick is their leader and he arranged it, it's not that hard to understand.
Shout by ragreynolds
VIP7A truly awful finale to a mostly decent season. Words cannot explain how much I despised this episode. It's the episode that deviates most from the source material, and also the one with the worst action and writing. Voleth Meir was a stupid character, and she shouldn't have had such a presence in the finale. Most of this episode was a stupid CG fight with a bunch of dumb monsters while Ciri just stands there staring at Geralt. Not enjoyable to watch, and The Wild Hunt's appearance was awful and felt really badly done.
And then we get to the grand reveal... holy fuck that was AWFUL. I'm not even gonna get started on this - they have dumbed down this Emhyr stuff so badly. I'm so mad about it. The biggest reveal of the books, and they completely and utterly butchered it and his character in a single line to end the season.
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@ragreynolds "Wah wah wah, I can't say I know what happens next in the story and act superior cuz I read the book. I got an adaptation that shifted a few things around to better fit the medium and so now I hate it and will nitpick everything I see in it. I contradict myself by saying the dream state ciri is boring but the monster fights are dumb showing a lack of understanding of a balanced pace. I'm gonna watch the porn parody with the incest multiple times to get over it" lmao
Everything was pretty good until the forest scene what the hell?? Prisoner exchange was a very clever idea, I'll give them that. I would like to see what Gilead would do with Fred? Poetic justice, he would suffer because of the laws he helped writing. But no, as a group of 30 women let's just chase him in the woods and beat him to death. Even cut his finger and send his ring to his wife?
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@hymntothesea I think Gilead commanders authorized Nick to execute Fred. Nick arranged ex-handmaids to kill Fred via "Particicutions", a savage punishment Fred helped create.
I would've loved to see Serena's reaction, but I guess they are saving that for season 5.
"My death comes without apology." But who is the one-eyed man who told them that Ragnar really is dead? Anyone?
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@mg_grey THAT, MY FRIEND, IS ODIN!
Even though I went through a recap on Youtube, I don't remember which consciousness is in which host. I don't even understand why this show exists anymore.
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@orphan I'm having the feeling you might not care but for whoever else is interested:
Dolores Prime = Dead, at the end of S3
Charlotte Hale = Dolores (but due to being in a different body, having different experiences, etc, has gone a different path than the original Dolores)
Lawrence = Dolores (last seen S3)
Christina (the Dolores we're seeing in S4) = Dolores (a backup in the archives/virtual world maybe? this hasn't been revealed yet)
William = Host (based on his worst side, the man in black, when he was active in the park. He is also still alive as a human)
Maeve = Maeve
Bernard = Bernard
Clementine = Unknown, the original clementine was overpowered by Host William in S4
Am I the only one confused about what the f is going on? Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention.
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@the_argentinian I feel like I understand everything, at least so far, but there's plenty we haven't been told yet. Last season ended with humans being freed from control by the AI that was sort of optimizing what happened in society. Becoming aware of this, people in the world began taking part in violent riots. At some point after, this became a "war" between humans and hosts, presumably due to their hatred of the AI - this was within the 7-year period between seasons, and off-screen for us, but referenced by Caleb and Maeve.
We don't know the scope of this war as of now, but we do know Caleb and Maeve at least have seen some action together - it also seems that there are human factions against the hosts, as shown in this episode. Caleb and Maeve assumed the war ended, but hosts were sent to kill them - so they've been brought back into the fold. On the host side, the Charlotte Hale host from S3 is leading the hosts (using the William "Man in Black" host, as well as hundreds of others), and they have some sort of grand plan that involves inviting humans to the park once again, now on US soil. It seems that Hale is hell bent on control.
The hosts can now "reprogram" humans by using the flies, which I think may be an evolved form of last season's tech that altered people's minds. Caleb and Maeve thought they were infiltrating the park and finding out what the hosts were doing, but they were just lured there all along, all to capture/use the flies on Caleb - he's somehow important for their plan, but we haven't been told why yet. (My thinking is since he was involved with the "memory alteration" tech before, maybe there's something about him they need - guess we'll find out. They've also been teasing that Caleb may have forgotten something relating to an injury he sustained during the war.)
Meanwhile, Bernard has been in the Sublime all along (in between seasons) - I kinda forget why he went in in the first place, but think it's to explore ways to "fix" the world itself or at least seek an outcome that would be good for everybody. (If you forget what the Sublime is, it's the technical "dreamscape" where lots of hosts found save haven towards the end of S2 - the bad guy from S3 wanted to get in there, and apparently so does Hale/William hosts, but Dolores had the key to it in her mind, so getting there is a big no-no). While there, Bernard saw countless simulations of the future of the world and seems to have discovered what to do, which he began to do this episode. (Stubbs follows him unquestionably because he was programmed - by Bernard - to do so, in S3, which is ironic.)
