I felt that this show really should be evaluated in three parts, as it’s almost as if there were three shows in one. The first season was based on the novel of the same name, so the writers had clearly marked signposts to follow. As the novel was quite compelling, so too was the first season of the show. However, this is where the book ended, and the writers had to take up the slack. The natural progression of events led them to follow the court case surrounding the death of Hannah Baker, as well as the criminal trial of Bryce Walker..
I felt that these two seasons should be evaluated in terms of being different shows. The first season was clearly the best season of the four b/c, that’s the material the book covered, and the writers didn’t have to come up w/ any of their own material. The second season, although panned by some fans and critics, still followed the same themes of the first season, yet it was not up to par in terms of storyline or writing.
The third and fourth seasons should be considered a third show all on their own. While they did stick to similar themes from the first and second seasons, the writers clearly had no plan in place to go beyond the end of the novel. These last two seasons, especially, felt completely disjointed from the first two. The third season was long and drawn out, and the payoff in the end was neither surprising nor all that interesting. If they had maintained more of a mysterious atmosphere over what they were doing, it might have been better.
The fourth season was just a mess. Watching a main character who’s moody, bitter, angry, intense, depressed, and slipping into schizophrenia is not a compelling watch. They began this in season three and continued on in season four. It really added no particular value to the show or the character of Clay.
As for the storyline in the final season, it was absolutely ludicrous. I won’t go into the details, but suffice it to say, the writers really didn’t put much thought into what they were doing. The last two episodes of the show were especially pointless. The prom episode was completely unnecessary, as was the finale, at least the way it was filmed. And, it certainly didn’t require 90 minutes to portray the events of what happened in the finale. Not to mention, the last scene of the show was absolutely awful.
I think that the worst part of this show, however, was the treatment of two characters, Bryce Walker and Montgomery de la Cruz. In the third season, the writers actually spend quite a few resources rehabilitating the image of Bryce, as if there was some redemption to be had for him. He was a serial predator, and his actions would have stemmed from a deep-seated psychological disorder that wouldn’t have simply gone away, b/c he acknowledged his wrongdoing and felt bad about it. They did something similar w/ Monte in the fourth season, and I felt that it was incredibly disingenuous, dangerous, and irresponsible to take this path, b/c it showed that they really hadn’t researched the topics they were writing about. It was really surprising to watch this, and even both of Jessica’s relationships w/ Justin and Diego were quite questionable, especially given her role as head of the women’s rights movement on campus.
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@jmg999 I like your comment. But I disagree with this statement: "Watching a main character who’s moody, bitter, angry, intense, depressed, and slipping into schizophrenia is not a compelling watch."
You could do a really interesting character out of that, look at The Silver Linings Playbook - without the schizophrenia - , the problem was the writers, they couldn't write it compellingly.
You have to go in expecting it to be a bit silly and it doesnt have the most talented editor but if you can get past that then you'll find fucking salvation!!! Imagine supernatural if it wasnt a homophobic, misogynistic, racist fuck up of a show. With actually funny as hell lines and great actors!! watch this, its really worth it!
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@empleat There is plenty studies that show it means something. I mean, do you really believe entertainment exists in a bubble protected against everything? If something is created by humans, flawed humans, it cannot lack meaning or intent.
The perfect example is anime, they really don` t care about the effects of its entertainment. They create things targeting escapism and desires, fantasy and power fantasy, Shounen for the teenager, Seinen for the young adult, Shoujo for female teenager, Josei for the female young adult. The problem is that most entertainment has its cliches that can sometimes become too much escapism. I mean not to say it is a relation of causation, things are not that simple in society, but there is probably plenty of reasons on why Japan is one of the few countries that exist Hikikomoris, the current low interest in young people having actual sex, low birthrate etc etc.
If you have teens consuming heavy porn (let`s be honest, even if they prohibit it, they still can get they horny hands on it) since the beginning, that affects a person. Specially people that already suffers from some emotional and mental difficulties. They have this idea of what sex is, wrongfully, based on porn, they have they fantasies that are reasonably satisfied by porn and hentai, and they probably can bother to find another partner to actually have a relationship beyond sex.
Of course, there are a lot more variables for why this happens. Social pressure in Japan against its teenagers and young adults are a known thing. At least at second hand. But there are more examples of entertainment having correlation against problems happens in their culture.
it got some nice lines but also too 'casual' in overall.
有亮點但也非常粗糙loading replies
@showtropes I recommend a rewatch. Most lines have some meaning. Usually over a joke, some have even three different jokes or points or references. The subtlety of it has certainly went way over my head in my first watch.At least the second seasons, since it is the most loved by the fans and arguably the best in the show. But I agree, after Donald Glover and Chevy Chase got out of the show, it got even more slow.
can a show get better than this?
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@madsfilms Only Fawlty Towers, arguably MASH, but I don`t know about Cheers.
my "manually marked seen" plays don't count in the highscore. That is just mean!
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@hagbard But do they do butt stuff?
I've never seen a show with more annoying characters in it. No one is likable, all of them are crazy and hateable.
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@nightperseida I kind see your point, but I disagree with it when thinking about the protagonist, she is basically the personification of "the good person" in the story, she is basically a heroin... as far as I can remember of course, which scenes she annoyed you?
I know i shouldn't compare it to Sherlock but gorram i can't fucking help it. It pales in comparison, and that's a bad thing because i can't concentrate on what's happening. Elementary seems like a retarded parasitical twin that should've been killed at birth but was nurtured by the deranged aunt. Everything about it is... average. There's no spark from Liu and Miller. It's just not there. You can't argue "Oh why can't we do an interpretation of Sherlock Holmes?" or something along those lines, when the fact is, the writing is what makes it. No one will ever match the quality of Sherlock without kidnapping Moffat et al and forcing them to write scripts in the dead of the night.
People who haven't seen Sherlock (most Americans surely) will probably like this show, but for those who have seen Sherlock and are eagerly anticipating the 3rd season, this show will bore you to dead. No, seriously. I'd rather watch Revolution (actually fuck no, i take that back).
Oh and before anyone makes a comment about the books, i've read them. Before watching Sherlock and before the 1st Sherlock Holmes movie with RDJ.
Watch Sherlock.
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@coolnow This may annoy you, buy hey, the arguments he uses is not wrong -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkoGBOs5ecM
