Andre Braugher and Robert Sean Leonard in one episode. AWESOME.
also: why is everyone so mean to Carisi? He sucked in the beginning but he's come a long way. I think hazing time is over now, guys.
Oded Fehr was in the "Mummy" movies,
but I remember him most from "Sleeper Cell."
And, David Cronenberg, for writing, "The Brood," "The Fly," "Dead Ringers," "Naked Lunch," and, directing, "Dead Zone."
This ep was good, very good? Very much liked Saru's happy ending, and thought the distance between our leads as a parallel to our distance from the series... been a while, (they should've called), and, maybe it's hard to move past some things we're critical of.
Hope everyone's heard the news about the possible upcoming reboot of all things Trek, if the sale goes through. But, some things already in the pipeline are supposedly still going to materialize. I'm looking forward to Star Trek without Kurtzman!
This episode was fucking great! Just perfect.
Where do we get the news from now on?
At least she didn't go crazy and burn all the innocent city folk.
I think I'm laughing out of shock. They really botched the ending!!
all of you saying this season is boring you're clearly not watching the same show I am? learn to have some fun.
There has to be way more to this. I can’t just end like that. Mine blown.
[7.8/10] I’m going to offer “Whistlespeak” some high praise -- it feels like a meat and potatoes episode of 1990s Star Trek, updated for the modern day. The visit to a pre-warp planet where our heroes have to blend-in, the moral dilemma of whether to observe the Prime Directive or save the lives of innocents and friends, the contemplation of what belief means in the shadow of tremendous scientific advancement, were all the bread and butter of The Next Generation, and Voyager and sometimes even Deep Space Nine. Seeing Discovery replicate those rhythms, and in some instances even improve on them, is a sight for sore eyes after an up and down season.
For me, this is a better spin on the type of story TNG aimed to tell in “Who Watches the Watchers”, where Starfleet officers were captured by a community of Bronze Age proto-Vulcans, and Picard had to save his crewmembers without letting the locals believe he was a god. “Whistlespeak” isn’t exactly the same. But the principles, of pretending to be a local, rescuing an ally from their potentially deadly practices, and reconciling your advancement with their beliefs are at the heart of both episodes.
The premise sees Burnham and company following the trail of an ancient Denobulan(!!!) scientist to a comparatively primitive planet called Hemenlo, to find the next clue. To secure it, they must blend in with the locals and work their way to a weather tower disguised as a mountain than Hemenloites revere as a holy place. That means taking part in a ritualistic race, meant to mirror one of the community’s hallowed myths, where the winner gets to tread the holy ground and complete the ritual to ask the gods for rain.
It’s a good setup! One of the best parts of Star Trek has long been the “new life and new civilizations” part of the mantra. While the outlines are familiar, meeting a new forehead-accented community with a unique form of communication, vibration-based curatives, and their own distinctive set of cultural practices is invigorating. The premise of Burnham and Tilly needing to hunt down the clue without being discovered or disrupting the locals’ rites adds a sense of tension to the proceedings. And as in classic Trek, we get a parent and child, named Ovaz and Rava, to help bring the planet to life in a personal sense, each of whom gets meaningful interactions with our heroes.
For Tilly, that means running the famed Helemna thirst race and bonding with young Rava. In truth, the show has underbaked the story of Tilly’s struggles to find the right connection with her students at Starfleet Academy. But I like that her interactions with Rava, both before and after the big reveal, show that she’s capable of forging that kind of mentorship connection. It’s a simple gesture, but her choosing to refill Rava’s bowl, re-qualifying her to finish the race, is gracious and powerful. Seeing her compassion, and the two women lifting one another up to reach the finish line, does a nice job of selling why Tilly makes sense as a Starfleet instructor at a time of uncertainty for her.
Honestly, the interpersonal interactions, which are typically a weakness for Discovery in my book, were one of the highlights here. If nothing else, this episode brings back the friendship between Burnham and Tilly in a way that's shown and not told that I love. The two have an easy, playful rapport that befits the show’s longest-running friendship. Their joking with each other, banter, and breaking all the rules to save one another fits the two people who’ve been in each other’s corner for the longest. Hell, even their racing together comes with echoes of the famous “Disco” shirts and jogs along Discovery’s corridor.
It’s not limited to that, though. One of the best parts of this episode for me is Adira getting their chance to step onto the bridge, and pushing past their nervousness with the help of Commander Rayner. I like it on two fronts. On the one hand, Adira has sneakily become one of my favorite characters on Discovery. They are basically what Wesley Crusher was meant to be -- a talented but untested young ensign -- except that Adira is more endearing through their anxiousness and stumbles, which are more relatable than the young wunderkind on the Enterprise-D.
At the same time, this is a good episode for Rayner, clearly changed after the events of “Face the Strange”, the way his usual calm but firm demeanor is used not to demean his subordinates or give them the short shrift, but rather to show a steely confidence in Adira, makes him feel like a good Team Dad rather than a recovering Team Jerk. It’s a good look for all involved.
Not for nothing, this may also be the most I’ve liked the interactions between Dr. Culber and Stamets. In truth, I’ve never fully bought their relationship. It’s long seemed to miss that spark that turns on-screen relationships from script-mandated pairings into something the audience can invest in. But I don’t know what to say -- they felt like a genuine married couple here, familiar in their way with one another, a little playful but caring, and tender in an area where they’re nervous to tread. There’s a relaxed sweetness between them that we don’t always see, and it helps sell Dr. Culber’s ongoing storyline of personal discovery.
I’ll admit, I have my qualms about that storyline. Star Trek is no stranger to spiritual awakenings (hello Deep Space Nine fans!), and my assumption is that it will tie into the ongoing storyline in a plot-relevant, not just personal way over time. But I’ll admit to appreciating the humanist spirit of the franchise, and I’m always a little leery when creative teams veer away from it in ways that don’t feel fully baked. (Hello Voyager fans!) Still, both Stamets and Book telling Dr. Culber not to fret over his newfound sense of attunement to something greater, but rather just enjoy it and let it wash over him, is a solid start.
That humanist spirit is more alive in Burnham’s adventures down on Helemna. It becomes necessary to break the Prime Directive and talk some future sense into Ovaz when it turns out the prize for winning the race isn’t just a visit to the sacred mountain, but rather the “privilege” of becoming a sacrifice to the gods in the hopes that they’ll bring rain. When it’s Tilly who’s suddenly on the chopping block (or, more accurately, the suffocation block), Michael is willing to throw the rules in the can like so many great Starfleet captains before.
I appreciate the twist! The episode runs a bit long for my tastes. But I like the fact that this triumphant moment of Tilly’s kindness and camaraderie with a young but aspirational soul quickly turns into a horror movie when you realize what their “reward” for winning is. The secret weather station containing a vacuum chamber that becomes a sort of altar creates a ticking clock as Tilly and Rava lose oxygen. And it creates urgency not only for Michael to disobey the Prime Directive in the name of her friend, but to convince Ovaz of the truth so that he’ll open the door and free her and his child.
What follows has shades not unlike the best part of “Who Watches the Watchers” -- a Picard-esque conversation between the wizened space-farer and the local mystic about what’s really going on. (Heck, Burnahm even shows Ovaz a view of the planet from above, a Jean-Luc classic.) I appreciate the idea of Michael rooting her pitch in both the practical and the personal. She explains to an already devastated Ovaz that his people can have their rain regardless of the ritual, and on the personal front, that Rava doesn't need to die for it. The explanation of the weather station and technology on the one hand,a dn the personal appeal on the other,shows the best of Michael.
And despite the on-the-nose “Here’s the lesson we learned from our treasure hunt today” ending that would make even Kirk blush, I like the theme about the evolution of belief more than the tacked-on theme of being cautious with technology. Burnham doesn't use her knowledge or technological advancement to invalidate Ovaz’s gods or tell him his rituals are no good. But she also recognizes that there is a hunger for the community’s beliefs to evolve and grow alongside the needs of the people and their evolving view of the world. The notion that ritual and tradition can sit comfortably alongside advancement is a heartening one, and it’s delivered with a blend of high-minded philosophy and personal compassion, and understanding nuance that would befit The Next Generation.
This is the kind of thing I want more of from Discovery even as we only have four episodes left. Even though it’s connected to the larger chase, this episode could stand on its own. It dusts off old franchise tropes but finds new spins on them, updating the lessons for current problems. And most of all, it puts our heroes hand-in-hand with another, with believable relationships and interactions among both the regular cast and the guest stars. As the episode’s own moral suggests, it’s never too late to keep the good from what’s old and blend it with the best of what’s new, and in an episode like “Whistlespeak”, it’s nice to see the show taking its own advice.
This show is crimially underwatched. It's so fucking great. One of the best of the current shows on TV maybe even all time. Excited for the new season.
I like this episode. Awesome planetary system, nice desert planet, the return of the interesting Tron suits, a concise goal for that away mission. First time it makes actually sense that the Captain goes on an away mission and it's one of the few times she's not saving the mission by acting like a super hero but instead works in a team. B-plot: a believable approach to the infiltration. The absence of stupid action scenes makes this show so much better. And not jumping from place to place makes the plot so much more believable. They encounter a mysterious place and an interesting species. An interesting way of conveying feelings and communication in general. This is the first time talking about feelings actually did make sense. Though they could have easily cut the eves dropping part with Adira talking about her insecurity, the training course in employee motivation and the "we're back let's blow some steam off in that cozy piano bar and talk about how we're doing" parts. All of that isn't totally BS but isn't it a bit too late into this season to start such character development? I mean, don't they have a ship to infiltrate, don't they need to act quickly because multiple worlds are on the brink of extinction and do they really need a "thumbs up" from a superior to be motivated in such a situation?
But as I said, I like this episode. Feels like Star Trek.
I was not expecting it to end so suddenly, I fully believed it was the last episode of the season, can't wait to see how it's all resolved.
As a side note, I'm glad to see more positive comments than negative comments here. Is it too much to hope that those who only commented negatively for the sake of being negative have finally stopped watching?
Absolutely amazing series. People who have not latched on to this yet are missing out.
Awesome plot twist! Didn't expect that at all from Dobbs! Season 4 sure is going to be very interesting! This series only gets better every next season
Not disapointed at all. The best season finale they could have done : they've offered a conclusion to all of this season's overarching plots while still managing to introduce new ones I can't wait to see on screen this fall. Liv and Major's relationship is going somewhere, at last !
I'm just going to start off by listing the 3 shittiest things that He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named did in this episode, okay? By the way, please enlighten me, how does a dude who does multiple shitty things per episode even stand a chance with Kara, let alone actually get together with her?
Calling Kara helping people as Supergirl "little superhero-ing".
Immediately disregarding Kara's wishes and telling everyone about their relationship.
Ignoring what Kara said (again) and trying to brush it off (again).
I just don't get it. A part of me thinks, or hopes, that the writers are doing this on purpose to show what a toxic relationship looks like and how not to treat your significant other, but let's be real, that's probably not it. They actually seem to think that this shit is cute and romantic. And it makes me sick.
Sure, Man-Hell was right about Jeremiah. But contrary to popular belief, the end doesn't justify the means. He could have proved his point without being an asshole. But I guess that's just how he rolls, right? And we're supposed to let it slide because... he's conventionally attractive?
Honestly, fuck this guy.
Alex's confrontation with Jeremiah was a powerful moment and Chyler Leigh once again brought her A-game.
How long will I have to scream into the void about Maggie's lack of screentime before someone finally hears me? I can't believe the showrunners think I'm more interested in What's-His-Face than in this amazing woman, who:
is simultaneously an absolute badass and the softest human being I have ever seen (those dimples, man, Jesus Christ, what a bae)
was outed to her parents and kicked out of the house at 14
is such a good detective that she figured out Kara's secret by herself
is a good, pure, unproblematic fave who deserves better.
I have no dignity left anymore, I will literally beg if I have to. I'll sell my soul if that's what it takes to get her a proper storyline. Sure, the family dinner thing was cute, and the way she comforted Alex was wonderful. Maggie Sawyer is a kind, supportive girlfriend who listens to Alex and is always there for her, and the way they keep trying to draw parallels between Sanvers and Karamel lowkey makes me want to die. They're not similar! At all! Not in a million years! One is based on mutual love, respect and support, and the other is an abusive garbage fire. I'm starting a campaign. Let Maggie Sawyer deck Fuckboy in the face 2017.
And another thing: I guess Karamel can be all over each other, make out, wake up in bed naked after obviously having sex, but God forbid Maggie and Alex do anything more than kiss for exactly 1.5 seconds. No, I'm not bitter, why do you ask?
Does Cadmus want to send all aliens back into space? Hey, here's a thought: maybe they can use that big-ass ship to launch Mayo-El into the Phantom Zone? Pretty please?
You know, I think what Dee Bradley Baker does with his voice, Doug Jones does with his body -- that thing he does with his arms as he walks is so alien, and graceful.
That was such a satisfying episode -- the show could end now, and I'd be happy. But, i hope it keeps going (and, I hope they do more Short Treks)!
[Edited by me to remove political statement. My apologies to the group -- this is not the forum for politics.]
This episode is rightly lauded as one of the best of the entire franchise. It's emotional, powerful and thoughtful and exemplifies exactly what the show is about. But, and I am frustrated with myself for saying this, I don't really love it all that much. This could be a product of having seen it a bit too often, or having it always rammed down my throat as BEST TREK EVAH!1!!
I get it, it IS quite wonderful, but I've always found it to highlight The Next Generation's inherent weakness, and that is that the episodic nature of the show. This is an episode that absolutely demanded to have repercussions for Picard as a character, and there are absolutely none. It should have utterly changed him as a person. The fact that this is such a self-contained episode makes it lose its power somewhat for me. Much in the same way that Worf is completely fine following 'Ethics' or that Riker falls in love but has forgotten all about it after 'The Outcast', TNG tells fantastic stories that you can dip in and out of at any time but so rarely rewards the viewer for watching.
I have to say, from season to season I find myself liking felicity less and less. She is so one dimensional...
The only good thing about this show is that we're one week closer to The Walking Dead after each episode.
In contrast to most of the other comments, I thought this was a really great episode. I loved the whole sequence of developments with Michael, Saru, and Hugh on the planet; terrific graphics for the creature, too. I enjoyed the protective but glitching computer holograms that our group kept encountering.
My only real gripe with this episode was the solidifying of Tilly's recent promotion, which still doesn't really sit right with me bearing in mind all the other higher grade officers on board Discovery. I know she's proven herself to be a capable and competent member of the team but she doesn't have the nerve I would argue to be a good Number 1 - it's also why I think she doesn't really work in the mirror Terra universe. Don't get me wrong, I actually like her character/the actress but I don't think this development quite works; I would like to think it gets undone for season 4.
On a different note, I'm not quite sure what Adira's plan was beyond "potential suicide mission to bring more medication"; seemed a bit cavalier. Still, I'm excited to see how the story continues next week.
That was quite an ending, one of the best comedies to ever grace television, will miss it.....
If I had an alter ego who smiles creepily at me I’d shit my pants.
Loved seeing Doug Jones without makeup. Felt like classic Trek with the race switching
Can see they are pushing further inner exploration and growth during these episodes. Not sure why there is so much hate for allowing the trek ethos to grow in this way. Think too many are not willing to move with the times and allow this show to deal with social issues like past trek shows have done in their own way.
I've really gotta stop reading these comments....
I consider Doctor Who to be very similar to Star Wars. In the sense that it’s all Star Wars, you can have favourite characters and episodes, but saying things like “I don’t like the prequels they ruined it”, I’m sorry but you’re not a real Star Wars fan. This mentality can be used with Doctor Who. People who don’t skip whole seasons because they don’t like the person playing the character or the show runner is bad is not a real Doctor Who fan. This is what the show is, complaining about it won’t make you enjoy it more. Jodie is an amazing Doctor, Yaz is a great companion. You’re all just complainers.
I love this return to serial style set up. This episode is obviously all setup and there was a lot of characters to keep track of, but I really enjoyed this. I’m excited to see where it goes. I love this. Is it my favourite Doctor? Companion? Show Runner? No. But I understand and accept those things are out of my control. It’s all Doctor Who. And it’s all good.
Honestly, i don't know why all the hate on this show. I'm lovin' it. Hard.
"-Uh.. i like jizz
-Ah shit. He ain't what he used to be."
Goodbye Veep, one of the greatest comedies of the decade, if not the best.
