What a great way to end the season. From the moment we saw that maroon movie-era uniform I had a feeling that we were in for something special. This weaved itself in with an alternate take on a classic TOS episode with great skill, as well as throwing in some fun stuff.
I particularly loved the way that they altered the lighting here to match the TOS style, with actor's eyes/faces smoothly lit up in highlights.
Was it a little too on the nose in it's tribute at points? Maybe. But I'm okay with it, and it had enough of a twist on things to make it work. Introducing Kirk this way was a deft, sneaky move and I liked it. And a cliff hanger ending! SNW, you have my attention and my heart.
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@lefthandedguitarist I'm so glad you liked this one, too! What a great episode! An excellent closure to a great first season and an exciting send-off to the second one!
Dr. M'Benga on the floor "do I get the same treatment, or... do I just wait until you two are done?"
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@alexnader I was thinking Dr. M'Benga on the floor and "I'm fine, by the way, thanks for asking!'
Usually, I'm not a fan of time-travel episodes, but I thoroughly enjoyed this one.
Starting to unsee Stefan from The Vampire Diaries in Paul Wesley as well. He makes a good Captain Kirk and a good love interest for La'An. Kind of cheering for them now :)loading replies
Starting to unsee Stefan from The Vampire Diaries in Paul Wesley as well. He makes a good Captain Kirk and a good love interest for La'An. Kind of cheering for them now :)
My thoughts, too. Was expecting Kirk to bite La'An's neck at anytime. And I shed a tear for her by the end of the episode... Those two do have great chemistry, together!
I liked this episode. This builds on lore about Khan from the wrath of khan, and on the temporal war, which is mention in enterprise and discovery. At some point we will need to see this two massive events, but I like how this episode builds on the lore.
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She also left the gun with the boy.
I thought this was a very entertaining episode especially compared to last week's woke BS. :wink: Time travel is always a safe vector to use.
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Star Trek has been "woke" for nearly 60 years. If you don't like it, stop watching and go back to shooting black kids who's frisbee lands on your front lawn.
Shout by Nyx
"...you haven't lived my life. You have the privilege of believing in what's best in people, me, I happen to know there are some things in this world that don't deserve forgiveness." - M'benga
...and he's 100% right. Shit, this episode hit so hard it set off my own PTSD.
Also, sure, everyone deserves a second chance, but only if they've owned up to what they've done and faced the consequences. If a person has changed or is working toward change, they'll accept that as a consequence not everyone will forgive them, and they'll respect other people's feelings (even if the feeling is hatred).
General Rah didn't earn forgiveness for his atrocities, he never owned up to what he did. Ortegas saw through his pretense, while M'benga and Chapel tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he was one stubborn and cowardly Klingon who ultimately deserved what he got, a dishonourable death. May he eternally face his consequences in Gre'thor.
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@van-nyx Well, doesn't really change the fact that M'Benga at any point could have said No... he didn't have to interact. I mean what would Rah have done if M'Benga had declined meeting with him? It was obvious from the first panic attack that this is where any interaction would lead - it was obvious to Chapel, it was obvious to Pike. Still, M'Benga consented to meeting with Rah later on. What did he expect would happen? I think maybe the dinner was out of duty, but there was no "benefit of the doubt" in meeting later on. Sorry.
And I don't (only) blame M'Benga for this misjudgment/murder. Pike should have benched him, make him see a psychologist etc. As it stands M'Benga doesn't get investigated (neither for this incident, nor for J'Gal) - and he gets no help. Bad situation all around. (And for this it doesn't matter if Rah was guilty of massmurder/whatever, BTW.)
Color me confused by this episode. I understand it's about war and the ramifications it has on the people fighting in it, losing your humanity, lust for revenge, blood lust... all this enhanced by some drug (that we've already seen in episode 1 of this season).
But what did actually happen on J'Gal? Did M'Benga kill the Klingons, or did he inject the Klingon commander who then killed all his officers? (Have to watch that again...) - Anyway, M'Benga turned out the real monster of J'Gal, and he reinforced that image by killing the Klingon commander/now ambassador of the Federation pretty much in cold blood... and everyone knows things are fishy, but there are no consequences. I realize that this episode is supposed to be uncomfortable, and it's not about what happened on J'Gal that bothers me (because "inter arma enim silent leges" and that goes doubly for morals), but the murder/incident on Enterprise? Just that M'Benga was even interacting with the Klingon should have raised multiple red flags, not even speaking that he was fighting with him... Considering his PTSD he should have removed himself from the situation after the dinner and be done with it. Don't know what Pike was thinking, honestly.
So, I'm not sure where this episode was going. It certainly didn't make me more sympathetic to M'Benga.
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I reckon (firmly believe) M'Benga injected himself and killed all the officers, with Rah just barely escaping as another covered for him. He had been known as the most deadly close-combatant and with the help of that #12 concoction and his rage, that is a very plausible thing to pull off
It was great to see the Klingons moving in sync and in one direction.
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@x0tt ah! I see what you did, there! Well done, sir, well done.
This was a really fun episode! I was surprised by how catchy some of the songs were, so kudos to the songwriting team.
It's definitely a really convenient way to significantly move multiple plotlines forward in a single episode when you're limited to a 10-ep season, specifically with Spock and Chapel, as well as La'an and Jim. Though I am starting to side-eye how these love lines are playing out.
All in all, I really enjoyed it. When else are you going to get a Spock that spontaneously breaks out into song? That alone is worth it.
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@jaesu Spock and Una sing a duet from Gilbert and Sullivan in an episode of Short Treks, before the series began.
I'm disappointed they've decided to leave everything we've been waiting for until the very last episode. Hopefully it's a satisfying conclusion, but it definitely didn't need to take this long to get there.
I am impressed that I really don't know how it's all going to go down, nor who I'm rooting for most.
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@metyuadem I think I found Philip the most sympathetic character, but it's probably the children who deserve a happy ending most of all.
That's more like it.
A vast improvement over the previous episode.
The most the show has felt like TLOU since the opening with Sarah.
Keep it coming.
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@GreatScott04 Damn, the last episode was my favorite.
That's more like it.
A vast improvement over the previous episode.
The most the show has felt like TLOU since the opening with Sarah.
Keep it coming.
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@appetizer "A vast improvement over the previous episode" is definitely not a homophobic dog whistle
This is it folks, this is peak television. What we have here is one of the most gut wrenching and masterfully crafted episodes ever brought to screen. Absolutely fucking phenomenal with career best performances from Murray Bartlett and Nick Oferman. Holy shit this will stick with me.
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@braylonmitch07 This episode was rough. I don't tear up often, but this episode made my eyes itch.
This is it folks, this is peak television. What we have here is one of the most gut wrenching and masterfully crafted episodes ever brought to screen. Absolutely fucking phenomenal with career best performances from Murray Bartlett and Nick Oferman. Holy shit this will stick with me.
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@braylonmitch07 this darn episode kept me up half the night
This is it folks, this is peak television. What we have here is one of the most gut wrenching and masterfully crafted episodes ever brought to screen. Absolutely fucking phenomenal with career best performances from Murray Bartlett and Nick Oferman. Holy shit this will stick with me.
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@totimoshi Oh shut up you assclown.
Shout by ragreynolds
VIP7The only thing I didn't like about this episode was that Bill died, meaning we didn't get to see him interact with Ellie, which was a wonderful part of the original game.
Aside from that, this episode is near faultless. It's the most original thing the show has done so far, by taking a side character from the game and fleshing out his backstory. It's deep, it's emotional, and it's a joy to watch.
Anyone complaining about wokeness and forced LGBT content has no clue what they're talking about. Bill and Frank were always a couple, even in the game. It's just that we didn't meet Frank in the game because he was already gone. Literally the only part of any of this episode that is not faithful to the source material is the fact that Bill died before Joel and Ellie got there.
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@ragreynolds my exact thoughts. Simply beautiful.
Getting bored. Been far too many deep moments already, and not enough action. Last thing the show needed was a filler episode.
I guess Neil was out of the office the day this one was written.
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@greatscott04 I think murdering a guard with his bare hands counts as an "outburst of extreme violence." This episode also featured Joel and Ellie walking to Bill's Town and him wanting to protect her from seeing the piles of bones -- this was a touching moment. Again, this is not a video game. You can't have action all the time if you want to actually present the show in a realistic manner and as we've seen from Chernobyl, Mazin is all about hyperrealism. This show is meant to be grounded in reality -- alter your expectations or just quit watching because you're going to be let down.
Getting bored. Been far too many deep moments already, and not enough action. Last thing the show needed was a filler episode.
I guess Neil was out of the office the day this one was written.
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@greatscott04 Seems you may not be entirely up-to-date with regards to what people want, since a LOT of people have called this one of the best episodes of a TV-show ever.
What you need to do is sit back, relax, and accept that the showrunners do not share your exact vision of how this show should be. Book readers have done this for decades now. Now gamers need to follow up and accept it as well.
What a cute episode. I'm surprised there are so many people calling it a filler episode when in reality this is what the show is all about - what is happening to "the last of us" - which includes how people survive, why they want to survive, how they continue life, what they choose to fight for and who they choose to fight for. The part that I don't understand is why when you find this well guarded place, now uninhabited, with power and supplies and a radio, you would choose to leave...
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@8lettersuk - Well said, that is exactly what the show is about, the many faces of humanity (literally and figuratively).
About Joel and Ellie choosing to leave - at this point they still have their mission to get Ellie to the Fireflies... further encouraged by the guilt that came with losing Tess (Joel feeling like he failed to protect her, and Ellie knowing she's immune and unable to do shit to help others... yet), Tess, whose last words were to beseech Joel to continue the mission... sigh... yeah...
A very solid 1/10 for Ep3
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@trakt4movies Loved it. 10 out of 10. I hope there's another episode just like this one later on in the season. Perhaps even more next season.
I dont like it. Why Bill is dead? This is The Last of Us not a romantic gay spin off of Bill and Frank!
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Now I want an entire show that is a gay spinoff with Bill and frank.
A fantastic short film that’s bound to become the major highlight of this season for most, while also likely to trigger some mentally deficient adults.
One of its best qualities is that you could in theory tell this story with a straight couple , and it wouldn’t lessen any of its emotional impact.
It’s such an original, creative angle for a zombie apocalypse show, and Nick Offerman/Murray Bartlett both deliver career best performances here. If their section was a bit more fleshed out, I genuinely think you could make a great indie/arthouse film out of it.
I also love how it portrays a hardcore Republican character without making him some incapable buffoon, we don’t get enough of that in movies and tv.Ps: I’m pretty sure they used an existing piece of music during the marriage montage , I’ve heard it before but can’t quite place where it’s from
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If you are referring to the music around minute 56: it is "on the nature of daylight " and it has been used in multiple movies like Arrival and Shutter Island .
It was a fine love story, but dedicating that much time to two characters we'll never see again? I'm not a game player and it felt a lot like filler. Yes, it's vaguely thematically relevant, but it didn't go anywhere. I'm the exact opposite of someone who wants action and plot, but I like my side stories to have a destination. This just.... didn't. The characters are gone.
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@tesbreag So you didn't get the parallels between the two pairs of characters then? I thought they were pretty obvious, considering I got it. I usually don't get it.
I don't know if it's the actress, the character, or both, but "Auggy" is the most obnoxious and irritating character I've seen in quite a while. Tiresome af, tarnishes any scene she's in.
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At least she's easy on the eyes, lol
As someone "smart" Saul is easily the dumbest person on the show. Why did they write him like this?
Am I crazy or did some of the dialogue audio get messed up in this episode? Almost like something very slightly muffling the audio of Jin and the shooter.
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The side characters are a lot different in the books, easy to spot the bland characters the show runners made up.
Holy light of The Seven this was intense.
+ Daemon flipping out the horse was cool
- The lady falling down injured isn't cool. She's a trained horse-rider/hunter and should know how to fall safely, especially when she saw the danger coming
+ Daemon using the rock I think is overkill but it can be done to look like an accident+ Alicent and Otto's dialogue showing Otto is a caring father despite everything that's going on
- Laenor and Joffrey sparring with real swords is both unnecessarily dangerous and bad for the edges of the weapons, but at least they're wearing gambison
+ Setting up Laenor and Joffrey as being "together" right from their first appearances in the episode+ Handicapped "Grema Wormtongue"-looking guy who was looking at the flowers being enormously condescending and passive-aggressive to Alicent was such a tense scene, where you can clearly tell he's doing it deliberately to unsettle her
+ Laenor and Rhaenyra's conversation about liking "roast duck" vs "goose" confused me at first, but the moment they revealed Laenor's sexuality with Joffrey, I remembered this scene and thought "Oh, THAT's what they were talking about. What an odd metaphor" lol
? If "roast duck" is women and "goose" is men, then isn't Rhaenyra, by saying she prefers "roast duck", saying she's lesbian? If so, why is she in love with Ser Criston? Unless "roast duck" means "heterosexual" and "goose" means "homosexual"?+ The dialogue between Rhaenyra and Ser Criston's values is amazing. It shows Ser Criston's honour and loyalty to his oaths yet also selfishness asking Rhaenyra to abandon an entire kingdom of responsibility just to run off together. You can see Rhaenyra being tempted, but when she tries to explain the insignificance of simply running away together against the gravity of her obligation to the Seven Kingdoms, Ser Criston doesn't even listen because he thinks his loyalty to his oath of chastity as a Kingsguard was his only redeeming value as a person. The classic battle between responsibility and personal pride
+ Oh my light of The Seven. Alicent and Ser Criston's dialogue was filled with so much dramatic irony. The contexts are completely set up with Alicent coming from last scene with her father, Otto, talking about Rhaenyra and Daemon, and with Ser Criston coming from the last scene talking about Rhaenyra and Ser Criston. Because of how little detail Alicent was speaking with, it was so tense because we know they're both thinking about completely different situations. And then when Ser Criston reveals what he was thinking, Alicent has no idea how to react, and then lets him go. You can see the disbelief on his face. She's probably relieved that Rhaenyra drank the "tea" because of Ser Criston and not Daemon, but she still doesn't have an actual answer to her question here. She just assumed if Rhaenyra did it with Ser Criston that she... didn't do anything with Daemon?
+ The grandmaester rejecting a new treatment for no reason other than clinging to outdated traditions and his own personal beliefs (which are clearly not solving the problem) is horribly stupid, but is very realistic to what many people actually do.
+ Rhaenyra's sarcasm at Lord Jason's sexist joke was hilarious: "Your presence is always such a pleasure, Lord Jason"
+ I love how the interruption of the Valeryan's entrance shows their arrogance and pride very clearly
- There's no in-story reason as to why Ser Criston is the only Kingsguard not wearing a helmet (showing his face to the viewers is not in-story). Why don't they just all not wear helmets for consistency?
+ The tension in the room when Daemon walks in (especially after being exiled) is cool, and this tension doesn't even get time to clear before Alicent suddenly interrupts the speech, inflating even more tension in the room
+ I love that reference to the Hightower green war beacon with Alicent's dress. I'm excited to know what that means for Alicent's intentions here
- I totally predicted that, during the dance, both Rhaenyra and Laenor would foolishly look at their respective lovers while everyone in the entire hall was watching them, and certain people would take notice, because obviously people will notice if you're staring at other people while dancing. This isn't a negative because I predicted it, but because both Rhaenyra and Laenor should know everyone is watching them, but decided to flirtatiously gaze at their real lovers anyway
+ During the dance, I heard music suspiciously similar to The Witcher's, which is awesome
+ I love the interaction between Daemon and Ser Gerold Royce (cousin of Daemon's late wife), and then Daemon reveals his motive for the murder: inheriting Runestone, then showing that Viserys is listening and already knows Daemon is guilty
+ Ser Joffrey using the term "cunt-struck"
+ Ser Joffrey's foolish speech at Ser Criston making Ser Criston think of who knows their secret and the risks of that secret being revealed, setting up tension for what happens later
+ Viserys' focus on Rhaenyra with Daemon looking like they're almost kissing was intense
- When the party was interrupted I had no idea what was happening, which might've been the intention, but I was completely lost, and I didn't even know who Ser Criston was beating in the face.
> At first, I saw a Valyrian with white hair getting flipped, then I suddenly saw a guy with brown hair getting beaten, and I didn't even realize the guy who died was Ser Joffrey (because he had no face) until I finished the whole episode and read someone else's comment about the dark tension between Rhaenyra and Laenor marrying minutes after Laenor's lover was killed.
> I had to watch the scene a second time to realize Ser Criston wasn't defending the party against invaders but started his own fight with Ser Joffrey about him being told to keep the secret (which he may have interpreted as a threat), and then it made sense to me what the hell was going on in that scene and why the panic all suddenly stopped when Ser Criston killed the guy
> I was so confused trying to figure this out that I didn't even notice Rhaenyra was also getting kidnapped in the midst of all of this until watching it a second time- Yes, based on what I read in other comments, I agree it doesn't make sense why Ser Criston was allowed to 1 continue beating someone with none of the 6+ guards stopping anything, and 2 roam free after basically murdering a guest of honour in front of at least 10 direct witnesses
- What the hell? Rhaenyra was kidnapped during the earlier panic, but then shows up perfectly fine. Now I'm confused again.
+ Ser Criston preparing to commit Seppuku made sense regardless of my confusion earlier, because of already breaking his Kingsguard chastity oath and not being allowed to marry Rhaenyra. But now it makes even more sense after I realized he murdered a guest of honour for his own sake
+++ And with that triple cliffhanger at the end of another Red Wedding is pure Game of Thrones returning to its former glory. Pure George R. R. Martin.
Total -: 09
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@daddy7860 I'm pretty sure that "roast duck" vs "goose" conversation was a heavy nod to "Snails and Oysters" scene from Spartacus.
Crassus: Do you eat oysters?
Antoninus: When I have them, master.
Crassus: Do you eat snails?
Antoninus: No, master.
Crassus: Do you consider the eating of oysters to be moral and the eating of snails to be immoral?
Antoninus: No, master.
Crassus: Of course not. It is all a matter of taste, isn’t it?
Antoninus: Yes, master.
Crassus: And taste is not the same as appetite, and therefore not a question of morals.
Antoninus: It could be argued so, master.
Crassus: My robe, Antoninus. My taste includes both snails and oysters.
Review by Daniel Lenz
VIP4Disclaimer: I didn't play the game, so I can't comment on how well it was ported to a TV screenplay. Asides from that I really have to say that the show caught me off-guard in multiple episodes. Going in, expecting another bland post-apocalypse setting with people fleeing zombie hordes à la TWD, it soon became apparent that this will be an emotional and protagonists-centered series. And boy do they deliver. Despite essentially being a rebrand of the Mandalorian "deliver the child" plotline TLOU really shines from stellar performances of Ramsey and Pascal. Given the extensive acting career of Pascal, it's really Bella Ramsey who deserves all the praise for portraying genuine emotions all through-out the 7 episodes I've seen thus far. She really lives up to her earlier GoT appraisal.
One particular point I want to stress is how well the story deals with the LGBT topic. Even as a left-leaning millenial, I do support the conservative notion that this often feels forced into the script in recent (streaming) productions. Don't get me wrong. The exposure should be there for people of the community to identify with but not feel tokenized. TLOU really handled that gracefully and organically in Episode 3 and most recently 7 with Ellie's sad backstory. Episode 3 alone could've been a full-length feature film thanks to memorable performances of Offerman & Bartlett. People commented that the episode made them depressed but I honestly felt happy for a grumpy character (classic Offerman) who found true love after most of the world was already in shambles.
Having said that, I'm really looking forward to how the story plays out and hope that the chemistry between Joel & Ellie keeps on giving.
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@iophobia I think your post is spot on especially that the LGBT elements in this case are not forced and should not be labeled woke.
So the determinism of the universe was completely shattered because Lilly is the first person in existence to make a real choice. Oh and when they die their consciousness is transferred into the simulation by...magic? And the simulated Lilly and Forest blinked out of existence I suppose?
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@mihnea13 their consciousness wasn't transferred, they are copies with the memories of their original selves.
Terrible ending. Stupid. Seriously hope they don’t make season 2. Complete waste of time.
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@d0ndada What I meant was that you should probably rewatch the show if you think the ending was terrible. It's very likely you didn't catch everything. Makes a lot more sense on a second viewing.
