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Time will remember this episode considerably more fondly than the people who are disappointed about it on the day it comes out. Admittedly not everyone likes musicals, and that's fine, but it's a joy to watch Star Trek take exciting chances in storytelling. The episode also includes some valuable callbacks (Callforwards?) to TOS
Wow. I might be the only one that liked this... From last week's awesome animated crossover to this week's the point when Spock started singing. I just love how they are trying new things in Trek. Doesn't hurt that I love a good musical.
What's wrong with all the haters here?
I usually dislike musical episodes, but the investment in this episode giving us a glimpse into the crew emotions. I mean, even the theme song was sung!
I still say, best star trek ever. Loving it!
[7.7/10] I love me some gray areas in my Star Wars. Don’t get me wrong, the light side vs. dark side stuff. But as I’ve grown older, I appreciate stories, including Star Wars stories, that acknowledge our communities and our choices are rarely that simple.
So I like the fact that the Nightsisters (or at least some kind of presumably related witches’ coven) are presented as a counterpoint to the Jedi, not the villains of the piece. This flashback serves a number of purposes. It gives us some of that vaunted backstory, to help us understand where Osha and Mae and Sol and others are coming from. It fills in the gaps of the events that loom so large in the histories of our twin protagonists, letting the audience see them (or most of them) after being tantalized by only being told about them so far.
But most of all, it establishes a different, but no less valid alternative to the force-users we know. We’ve seen the Jedi. We’ve seen the Sith. We’ve seen the Nightsisters who, while sometimes sympathetic (hello Fallen Order fans!), also seem to be harnessing some kind of black magic. We’ve seen the Bendu, who’s more neutral than gray. And we’ve even seen the more passive and meditative Bardottans. (Aka, the species Jar Jar’s girlfriend is from -- no I’m not joking.)
But we’ve never seen anything quite like this coven led by Osha and Mae’s mother, Mother Aniseya. I love that they have a different take on the Force. The coven thinks the Jedi view the Force as a power to be wielded, whereas they view it more as a thread, a tapestry between peoples and events, that can be tugged and pulled to cause changes amid that weaving. Their perspective on the Force is a collectivist one, where their connection to it is given strength by the multitude, in contrast to the Jedi’s view on attachments. And they don’t view the Force as directing fate, but rather as providing for choices -- one of the core ideas of the franchise.
That is all neat! One of the best parts of The Last Jedi is the notion that the Force does not belong to the Jedi. It is, instead, something that flows through all peoples. Exploring that there may be different religions out there, different means of reaching and interpreting it, adds depth ot he world and adds complication to the binary. It’s nearly never a bad thing to add that kind of complexity and ecumenical spirit to your universe.
More or less. One of the other things I appreciate is that the Coven and the jedi view one another with suspicion, even though they’re mutually respectful at first. The coven sees the Jedi as arrogant, too focused on power, too individualistic. The Jedi view the Coven as dark, as corrupting, as dangerous. I’m always a fan of shows that don’t present one perspective, but rather explore how the different vantage points affect the different views groups may have of one another. (Shades of Deep Space Nine from the other major star-bound franchise!)
This is all to say that the Coven is different than what we’re used to, but no less valid. The Jedi as we see them here are different than what we’re used to, but not invalid. And their twin approaches, alike in dignity, come through in the fulcrum between the Coven and the Order: Mea and Osha.
Let’s talk about the elephant in the room with those two. The young actress (actresses?) who play the earlier version of the twins aren’t very good. That's no sin. Giving a convincing performance as an adult with years of experience remains startlingly difficult. But the reality is that, though these young actors are giving it their all, there is a put on, stagey quality to the performance that can take you out of the moment. I dearly hope the fandom is kind to them nonetheless. It’s tough being a young performer, especially in a high profile role. But despite a nice moment from Osha when she realizes the gravity of what she’s lost, a lot of the acting from the kiddos is apt to take the viewer out of the moment.
Thankfully, the writing helps make up for it. Not for nothing, given Lucasfilm’s current ownership, much of this feels like the first act of a film from the Disney Renaissance. Osha could be your classic Disney princess. She loves her family and wants to do good and be righteous, but she has this yearning for something different, beyond the garden gate. The episode lays it on a little thick in places, but it’s a venerable story beat for a reason. There’s something compelling about someone trying to make the best of a family situation that doesn’t quite fit them but yearning adventure out past the horizon. (I mean, hey, it worked for Luke Sykwalker.) Osha is roughly one “I want” song from joining the little mermaid and company.
What I like about it, though, is that you feel for all sides of this situation. You feel for Osha. She wants to have an existence separate from her twin. She doesn’t feel like she fits in with the Coven. She doesn’t want to disappoint her moms or her sister. But she doesn’t want to lie. She doesn’t want to deny herself. She doesn’t want to give up this thing inside her telling her she wants more, or at least different.
You feel for Mae. She admittedly, has signs of being the “evil” twin. (Though I guess they both seem to use their force powers to freeze that translucent butterfly? I’ll admit, it was confusing who was who there at points.) She feels at home in the Coven. She loves the immediate family and the wider one. She has power and ease, and the confidence that comes from feeling that you’re where you ought to be. In the end, she does a terrible thing, but she’s an eight-year-old lashing out at an unfortunate situation. In the larger than life confines of fiction, it’s an easy thing for me to forgive.
You feel for Mother Aniseya. She is trying to protect her people. She wants to raise her daughters in her own proud tradition. But she also wants them to find their own path to it. But, from the vantage point of being a little older and a little wiser, she knows that what you want can change. What makes sense in the exuberance of youth can fall out of favor when it makes contact with the knots and tangles of that great ethereal thread. Wanting to protect your child, to instill your values in theme, while respecting their autonomy as young people is an impossible balance. Aniseya handles it with understanding and grace.
Heck, you even understand Mother Koril, who is the more strict and belligerent parental figure here. The cultural conditions are mostly implied, but it’s easy to intuit how the Coven has been marginalized, diminished, possibly by Force. The girls represent their future, and it seems to have required a great deal of her and her partner to make that happen. Why wouldn’t she do anything to protect her girls, and mistrust the Jedi who would deign to take their future away from her and her family?
And you also feel for Sol. The Acolyte already conveyed a very fatherly vibe between him and Osha,but this episode cements it. I have my qualms about what happens to the young woman, but Sol seems searnest when he tells her that she could be a great Jedi, when he imparts that courage means pursuing honestly what you want, when he embraces her in the throes of tragedy and wants to take her on as a surrogate child. The estranged relationship between them in the present is counterbalanced by this fraught but touching connection between them in the past.
Of course, that past is no less slippery. For one thing, there’s still much that's alluded to that we don’t quite see. Presumably there was some conflict between the Jedi and the Coven that Osha wasn’t privy to, which we’ll see down the line. Presumably, it’s part of what spurred Mae to take the actions she did. Presumably it’s why there’s great regret among the Jedi who survived the encounter. And that's before you get into the fact that apparently Mother Aniseya channeled some forbidden magic, or at least did something controversial, to bring the twins’ lives into being. There’s plenty of lore and intrigue yet.
But for now, at least, we have two cultures at odds with one another, in ways that question and complicate our sympathies. This is Star Wars. We know who the Jedi are. We’re apt to side with them, to see them as Osha does, as peacekeepers and heroes of the galaxy. (Even if we’ve seen their ossification and dissolution over the course of the Prequels.) When Osha wants to be a Jedi, and her witch family tells her to lie, to deny herself what she wants in the same of something she’s uncertain about, it’s easy to see Indara and company as rescuers.
And yet, it’s also hard not to see this different means of reaching the Force, that is apparently all but outlawed, and not have serious qualms about the equivalent of religious persecution. The notion that the Coven is allowed to exist, but forbidden from passing on their knowledge to children is startling. It’s clear that there remains animosity between the Coven and the Jedi, born of mutual mistrust, with ostensible peacemakers and instigators. And it’s hard to think of Republic law allowing the Jedi to test and, with some permission, take children away to be taught in their fashion, without thinking of real life colonial schools, and so-called “residential schools” in the United States, that have a checkered history at best.
So while the show makes things a little too blunt with Mae and Osha standing across from one another on a broken bridge, you get the reasons behind the actions and anguish between these two young girls, between their various parents, between Jedi and the Coven. This is not black and white, good and evil, light and dark. This is something more muddled and uncertain than that. And it portends deeper and more interesting things as the mythos of Star Wars evolves before our eyes.
(Speculative spoilers: My bet is that Mae’s master is one of her moms, probably Mother Koril. THough I guess it being the comparatively peaceful and forgiving Aniseya would be a bigger twist. The law of conservation of characters suggests it’s one of them, unless it’s secretly Master Vernestra or something. But one of the moms would be the bigger emotional gut punch, so I presume and hope it’s one of them.)
I was very skeptical about a musical episode, but after the fantastic crossover I had my hopes up. And I wasn’t disappointed. It was not the best episode of this season but it was great. I don’t understand the bad ratings - maybe because they [spoiler]stayed in the musical and didn’t go space bunnies[/spolier]? I even started to feel like Jim(s actor) belongs. Unfortunately only one episode left :cry:.
The thing about THE HUNT is that is an absolute blast of a horror comedy. Demented, violent and a bit times shocking; this film is an example of the twisted mind of Hollywood's writters (Damon Lindelof has even more twisted tricks up his sleeve) and a highly political satire of violence, racism, social superiority, guns and nasty comments on social media. The plot catches you straight from the beginning and twists the knife (see what I did there?) into a non stop frenzy of comical violence and a hero in Betty Gilpin's insane performance.
This episode really gets the story pushed along.
As a person who never actually got into Halo the video game, and didn't know anything about the story, this series is still just as captivating and epic and well made. Easily one of my favorite things to watch!
Yeah, a lot of shows have done it. I know of three, scrubs, raising hope and 30 Rock, and I loved all of them. It’s always a joy (in my opinion), even though it is robbing us of story-content (which season two has little to offer anyway). But a musical is a different medium and it’s legit to focus on sound and show instead of deep, well written stories. That is no excuse for the rest of the snoozefest of episodes, but episode 9 is great fun and there are some real talents in the show with great voices.
So, even if this was no real Star Trek episode, only a big stage, this was one of the few episodes from season 2 that I actually enjoyed. It was a fun standalone episode, again contrasting hard with the previous one.
And since SNW feels more like Star Trek than anything that was done in the last couple years with the franchise, I trust that they will find the sweet spot in season 3.
I guess the „exploration of strange new worlds“ is taking place not in space, but in how far you can take a Star Trek episode, and how different each week can be. While season 2 mostly failed in telling good stories, they made each episode totally different, which is great. Now hire some good science fiction writers, maybe from the Orville team, a we’re golden.
it's got sloppy dialogue, muddled motivations and a diverse intersectional cast. this is 100% written by an AI because NOTHING makes sense and NOTHING is explained. 2 episodes in and i'm none the wiser.
I don't know what's going on with the other comments, I thought it was great!
Glad this shit is over
FYI...
this film is the first of a Trilogy
Viy Collection TMDB Link:
https://www.themoviedb.org/collection/428046?language=en-US
the First is called
"Forbidden Kingdom"
1st installments Trakt Link:
https://trakt.tv/movies/forbidden-empire-2014
This movie may also be found under the titles, "Forbidden Empire," and, "Viy,"
the Second, is called
"Journey to China: The Mystery of Iron Mask",
AKA,
"Journey to China: The Mystery of Dragon Seal",
2nd installments Trakt Link:
https://trakt.tv/movies/journey-to-china-the-mystery-of-iron-mask-2019
and,
the Third,
is still in production, and, is to be called
"The Journey to India"
3rd installments Trakt Link:
https://trakt.tv/movies/the-journey-to-india
What If drives a high standard and every season there's a couple of episodes which are amazing. The Doctor Strange one from S01 is the most memorable one (ignoring the final episode for logical reasons). This was the best episode so far hands down.
This is just so brilliant.
I liked this one, but I wanted more. A lot to pack into half an hour. Seemed like it would've been much better in a longer format.
For being set in the 90s there are a lot of modern day jokes.
Following the great last one, yet another fantastic episode
Irreprehensibly bad writing. They clearly did very little to no research on how the CDC operates (or any hospital for that matter). The police response was equally bad. If they were going for this level of gross incompetence and unprofessionalism, they should've placed it in the '70s. Crystal Reed's character is smug and unlikable. All the stupid horror cliches are present, including jumpscares and people making stupid decisions. Plus, they changed the origin story completely for no good reason.
