After reading some of the negative perspectives, I thought I'd chime in with a more positive take. Overall, I thought this episode was a significant improvement over most of the first season, and the primary reason was writing. The dialogue has a more natural flow and finds ways to inject tension/conflict even in the non-action scenes. To my eyes, the opening action sequence was at least as good (and I'd argue better) than most of the action from the first season. Some of it is a production design shift, with things feeling a bit more gritty. As for the non-action scenes, budget constraints require the writers to build story around human drama, finding B plots that don't require extravagant CGI. I'm sure this is the basis for many of the complaints, but I'm actually impressed with much of what they've come up with so far (e.g., Ackerson tension, spartan team feuding, visiting knockoff Cortana) and am hopeful that they can keep it up.
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Is this even a real person? You thought the writing was a significant improvement?
"Why did they send your team?"
"They chose us based on looks"
"Yeah, we all look really good"
"Yeah, we're all very attractive!"
If you pay close attention to that scene, you can actually see the actors dying on the inside as they deliver this juvenile drivel.
Seems this show is hoping cleavage is enough to keep them going. There might be enough incels to keep the show afloat
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@cyn-c Looking through your history of ratings and comments you seem extremely fragile whenever a tiny bit of nudity or "cleavage" appears in any media. Rating an entire show or episode a "1/10" because you can't handle to look at a woman naked is quite funny and I had a good laugh mate.
Let's get the elephant out of the room now - Gina Carano needs to go. Her acting ability isn't exactly the best, sure, but combined with being the worst performer on the show she's also an awful person in a franchises whose modus operadi since 1977 has been one of inclusion and tolerance. And it's a shame too cause Cara Dune is a great character who has a ton of potential - a recast would do wonders.
Outside of that obvious, glaring frustration, this is another great episode, and one that showcases Carl Weathers' ability to direct action and puppetry extremely well. He treats his episode with a light touch, going along for the ride with a healthy dose of humor for good measure. All of the plot dumps and questions the episodes raise seem to indicate we are heading into Episode IX setup, which may divide some fans but I appreciate the sequel trilogy love (and other Legends love at the end of episode) just as much as original trilogy and prequel trilogy. Overall another solid entry in a much better season.
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@legionwrex You people are able to separate the character from the actress or artist from the art when its one of your own, but if its someone you disagree with on a political level you want blood. Pathetic. You're so far programmed to hate anyone whose opinion is not your own you can't even watch them ACT in a sci-fi show. You're saying that people who don't confirm to your opinions don't deserve to make a living acting. That type of thinking is honestly quite Imperial of you, Try to take a moment to reflect on that.
Also I'm not taking her side, but freedom of speech is a thing, no matter if I agree of not.
Shout by Bowtie Guy
VIP4still not sure of the scheduled air dates, since I just watched this on AMC+. Just posting in case others are trying to figure it out, too.
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@bowtieguy they release it early on AMC+ on thursdays, but officially the episodes air on tv on sundays
Dear Mr. Sheridan, I am a MASSIVE fan but this show…is sheer garbage :confounded:
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You're crazy. This show is fantastic. A Stallone tour de force.
Review by Andrew Bloom
VIP9[7.4/10] Gosh that was long. I don’t think that any episode of television, even an epic season finale for one of television’s marquee shows, needs to be two and a half hours long. Sure, many movies are that long. But movies have the structure and pacing for it, with rising and falling action, act structures, and other foundational elements that make 150 minutes not feel that long. “The Piggyback is basically” fifteen minutes of prelude, followed by two hours of a third act climax, followed by fifteen minutes of an epilogue. It’s just too much.
But there’s good moments here! Eddie’s death is meaningful. Him playing Metallica’s “Master of Puppets” to lure the bats with Dustin is cheesy as hell, but just as awesome. His choice to stand and face the horror rather than run away from it as he did with Chrissy is inspiring and earnest. And there is irony and tragedy in his demise. He was the town pariah and scapegoat, but secretly one of its biggest heroes. The world will never know how he gave his life to save a town that hated him, but Dustin knows, and his uncle knows too. It’s sad, but comes with a certain poignancy.
The same goes for Max’s heartfelt admission that she spent so much time feeling guilt over Billy’s death that she wished something would happen to her, something that would make her disappear. It’s one of the most honest renditions of survivor’s guilt I’ve seen on television, and Sadie Sink owns the scene. The loss of someone who hurt you, but who was also hurt, is a complicated thing, and for all season 4’s missteps and questionable story choices, it gets Max’s vulnerability and strength in the shadow of unspeakable thoughts just right.
As tired as I am of “power of love” stories, I did like that it’s Mike finally saying the L-word that gives Eleven the strength to do her thing. It completes Mike’s arc, with him worrying that he’s not good enough to be with a superhero and that admitting his feelings would make it hurt more. But him deciding that’s baloney and affirming his love for Eleven in every form makes for a beautiful little monologue. The finale lays things on a little thick with visions of everyone’s plans failing and good folks suffering, but the idea that love spurs us to “fight” is a simple but effective tonic to that idea.
There’s a number of lesser but still good moments in the lead-up to this. Argyle finding a kindred spirit in a Nevada pizza shop is a fun win for him. Jonathan validating his brother and wanting to support him no matter whom he loves is a wholesome moment. The Russian prison guard convincing Yuri to once again be a “great man” and help save the motherland by saving “the Americans” is the best thing to come out of that storyline.
But again, there’s just too much going on, and a lot of it seems superfluous. It’s admirable that the Duffer Brothers want to give everyone in the cast something to do. But most everything outside of the Eleven/Max/Vecna confrontation seems like perfunctory piece-moving rather than a vital part of the action.
Lucas closes off the jock jerk/satanic panic storyline, but randomly finds the strength of will to avoid being strangled out of nowhere. Erica likewise beats up a bully twice her size almost at random. Steve, Robyn, and Nancy burn up Vecna in the Upside Down, but it doesn’t even kill him, so it feels like they just mildly inconvenience him. Eddie and Dustin fighting bats includes some cool sequences, and keeps Vecna’s minions from attacking the others, but is a sidestory at best. And once again, Hopper, Joyce, and Murray fighting the demogorgons and demodogs in Russia is the most tangential, tenuously-connected part of this whole season.
Jumping around to all of these storylines is just plain exhausting. While I wouldn’t call any of it filler (okay, maybe the business at the Russian prison), a lot of it feels much less urgent and essential than what’s going on in the main event.
The main event is good though. Max retreating to her happy place, and it being the finale of season 2, is a nice surprise. Eleven finding out how to “piggyback” and fight Vecna via Max’s mind is a cool trick and thrilling moment. And Eleven turning the tide and defeating One, however temporarily, is rousing.
But things quickly devolve into tired exposition and monologuing, where Henry explains how he’s going to shatter the borders between his world and ours, and how it was Eleven, not Dr. Brenner who made him. We already got a giant infodump at the end of episode 7, which was already kind of a stretch. This one is probably necessary, but listening to One simply announce his backstory with some of the usual visuals doesn’t add much intrigue or excitement to the proceedings.
Plus, the episode makes a big deal about how our heroes lose for the first time, but...it seems like they shouldn’t have? Sure, Henry succeeds, and there’s a giant Upside Down-fueled “earthquake” that devastates Hawkins. That’s unfortunate, and I’m glad there’s some kind of cost to all this interdimensional adventuring.
But Eleven found her inner strength and obliterated the guy in the mind realm! Robyn, Steve, and Nancy burned the hell out of him in the Upside Down and blasted him with a shotgun out the window! I’m not saying plausibility is the key in a show where the supernatural is the rule of the day. Yet, nothing in this feels like a loss. It feels like, by all rights, they should have been able to finish the job here and now with Vecna, and the only reason they didn’t is because there’s another season of Stranger Things that needs a villain, and the Duffer Brothers don’t want to have to come up with another one. It would have been better if Vecna had enjoyed more of an outright win than something that seems like a complete loss that turns out to be mere table-setting for season 5.
That said, we do get some great work with Max. It is harrowing watching the life leave her body as she cries out about how scared she is in all of this. It’s a nice contrast to where she’s reminded of what she has to live for with her friends and doesn’t want to disappear. Caleb McLaughlin does an extraordinary job as Lucas reacting to Max’s apparent death with his own cries of pain. And we’ve added to Eleven’s messianic nature by having her effectively revive Max, creating the second of two “miracles” in the episode, even if poor Max remains in a coma.
The epilogue is nice enough. There’s the bevy of tearful reunions you’d expect, with Eleven and Hopper being the best of them, naturally. I’m glad that the show didn’t just jump from climax to cliffhanger. It’s nice that we get some of the denouement and emotional aftermath of all these grand events. But considering how many concurrent storylines and characters they’ve been juggling to this point, even that soon feels overextended.
Regardless, Robyn forming a friendship that has the potential to lead to more with her crush is a really nice scene, and it’s good to see her get the win. Nancy and Jonathan’s deal continues to be confusing and pointless. Lucas reading a Stephen King book to a comatose Max is a creditable homage to one of the show’s clear inspirations. And seeing the town of Hawkins wonder why they’re cursed and forced to suffer like this, with the aftermath of Vecna’s handiwork coming to the fore, helps add a sense of place and scope to the scheme this season.
Overall though, this season finale bites of way more than it could chew. Why this couldn’t have been broken up into three episodes, or even just been built into a better act structure, is beyond me. There’s a lot of good material here. Some of it’s even great. But it’s presented in a way that makes it really hard to get your hands around.
Still, I like some of the big swings the show’s taken in season 4. Vecna introduces a retroactive backstory and mastermind for all that’s happened which is kind of hard to swallow. But having a villain with a face and a personality and a motive escalates this struggle into something broader and more meaningful as a reflection of Eleven’s own struggles. The show’s done good work with a number of the key relationships in the series, and introduced some solid new characters while reintroducing old ones. (I’m glad we got more Owens this year.)
But at the end of the day, this also feels like half a story, despite the ridiculously bloated runtimes for every episode. This is as much a prelude to season 4 as it is its own distinctive thing. Maybe that’s to be expected in the streaming era, but while there’s high points and quality elements at play, the season’s never more than the sum of its part.
Still, a friend described Stranger Things as a show that’s still exciting and worthy of investing in even when it’s missing half of its shots, and I think this finale is a good representation of that idea. Not everything works, and the time required prompts a certain exhaustion factor. But this feels epic and grand and satisfying enough as a temporary resolution to the season’s events. There’s a lot more ground to cover, but also enough to tug the heartstrings and make you cheer, which is still worth appreciating.
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Gosh that was long.
Just slightly longer than your comment on this episode :face_with_hand_over_mouth::wink:
Seemed a bit out of character that he didn’t shoot that guy when he said he would., for a man that’s killed as much as him and that the man means nothing surely he would have killed him to send the message to the group., interesting though that he didn’t. I really think he’s doing the group a disservice though, he should gather them all together and give them a beginners guide, like watch out for snakes under trees, boil the water before drinking it, if you steal them you’re out; he’s kept a ton of useful lifesaving info under his hat and then when people die he says here’s the lesson! These people know nothing so TELL THEM you idiot. Otherwise, I like the show, they really shoulda stayed where they were though.
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He told them of snakes, water, etc via the German speaker at the meeting in the saloon before they set out.........
Pirates of the Caribbean meets Indiana Jones.
Nice try, just entertaining, not a masterpiece.loading replies
@raybola a perfectly fine movie for Saturday evening.
Shout by LeftCoastBoomer
VIP2The lawyer nicknamed Money and her client were killed for the information they knew, and more importantly, for the deposition on the thumb drives they each had.
Yet no one has asked Maddie where the original from the camcorder is. This would be a reason to hunt her down and get the tape from her, then kill her. Yet no one has asked her about the tape.
And there’s a little problem with that original tape because she didn’t shut it off at the very end of the deposition. She walked around in front of the camera to the table, then returned to shut the camera off. She is on the video. And that video is in the hands of the murderers.loading replies
Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert
