It might look and smell like star trek but this is not star trek
I think this season was written by the same writers that wrote the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina.
I want to like it, but the writing has become so bad that it's sometimes soap opera level.
How can there even be a single person who thinks Tokyo would be a good leader? She fucked up so many times already and has no good qualities for a leader.
How can they just perform lung surgery on someone in the middle of a bank?
The scene where they all draw weapons at each other was interesting once, but it happened so many times now that I just roll my eyes. It feels like such a cheap attempt at being cool.
That bull scene was so... awkward? What the hell was that about. The professor is already in danger. Why did the writers add a bull as an attempt to make it more dangerous??? I'm so lost.
Why the hell would they let Arturio donate blood? Tie him up properly and throw him in a closet or something. He's always trying to stir up shit. Can the characters please learn that? Why would they ever trust him or even keep talking to him. And don't get me started on that pointless Monica drama - She should have known by now that they can all be violent.
4.4/10. Well then! I was looking forward to this one, given how big of a deal Khan is. He’s one of those things you just sort of know through pop cultural osmosis, even before I’d seen a second of The Original Series. But man, this was a disappointment. The concept is neat, but the episode just walks in place for two-thirds of the runtime, with the uncomfortableness of a modern day women being smitten with 1990s Hitler as a subplot. So little in the episode makes sense, which is something I can usually forgive, except so little of it is entertaining either.
Let’s start with the positives. First and foremost, it’s a cool premise. The notion of unfreezing a ship full of old ubermensch dictators floating around in space and trying to figure out what to do with them is an interesting one. It raises all sorts of ethical issues and clash of civilizations potential that mostly goes unrealized in anything but the most obvious and heavily underlined terms. I haven’t seen Star Trek II, but I can only hope that part of the reason it’s so well-regarded is that it makes good on the promise that Space Seed can’t deliver on.
Second, there’s a few good character moments. Bones standing up to Khan when he has a scalpel to his neck was a fistpump for me. The way he seems totally unfazed, basically egging Khan on to do it, is one of those badass moments that feel all the more impressive next to Kirk’s usual bravado. In the same terms, I was fairly aghast when one of Khan’s goons smacked Uhura. For as much violence as there is on television (and not in the form of cheesy hand-to-hand fights like the one between Kirk and Khan), violence against women is still pretty shocking. But the show, to its credit, leaves Uhura similarly unfazed, still resolved not to aid these monsters.
It’s part of the best sequence in the episode. Things pick up once Khan actually stages his coup, as the story becomes both a battle of wits and a test of wills. For as much as the episode talks up Khan’s ruthlessness, he’s only legitimately scary in the scene where he tells the crew that he will let Kirk die if they don’t join him. It’s an interesting moral experiment, one that feels pulled out of a Christopher Nolan movie, and the fact that nobody cracks is similarly heartening. For all Khan’s supposed superior intellect and ambition, it’s a sign that the 23rd century man (and Vulcan) are made of stronger stuff than he thinks.
But boy is there a lot to disdain here. Khan himself didn’t land with me. I’ll admit, I mostly know Ricardo Montalban via Billy Crystal’s impression, so there’s not quite the star factor that might have boosted his presence. His Khan has the vibe of the King of Siam from The King and I -- haughty and overconfident and oblivious to any order but his own – but he never really comes off as “greater than” despite the way his talents are talked up.
The worst element of the episode, though, is Crewman McGivers. The fact that she turns into a weak-kneed, googly-eyes puddle of affection the minute she turns her eyes to Khan is ridiculous. There’s the kernel of a decent idea there – that she’s a historian and admires the great and terrible men of history, so seeing one in the flesh is overwhelming – but it’s played as emotional shortcut melodrama. The way she begs him to stay and he manipulates her is uncomfortable to say the least.
To some degree, you have to cut a show from the 1960s slack for its gender politics, but that doesn’t make it any less unpleasant for a modern viewer to see that sort of manipulation depicted. Yes, Khan is the bad guy, but the show doesn't earn it – he just gives her a look and a come-on and she’s putty in his hands. It’s unsatisfying and more than a little gross and her being the one that saves the day does little to undo that.
The episode also offers an odd exploration of its premise. As with “Conscience of the King,” there’s the sense that the show is playing around with pseudo-Nazism. This is Kirk vs. another surrogate Hitler, a tyrant who claimed to be unifying the world and purifying humanity. And yet Kirk and the rest of the crew, save for a rightfully befuddled Spock, are somewhat in awe of him as well, arguing that savagery is a part of humanity and you can’t help but be impressed with the guy. It’s a really odd thing to throw into a Hitler allegory. There's the wisp of a theme of man improving himself through genetics vs. improving himself through technology, but it's undercooked at best.
By the same token, he’s supposed to be so smart and so strong, but we don’t really see that. His ability to take over the ship is a fairly impressive way to dramatize his intelligence, but that’s also supposed to be revealed in his ability to manipulate people, and his “oh I’m so tired” routine and his “persuasion” of McGivers seems cheesy rather than convincing. (Kirk in particular is an absolute sucker in the episode.) And what manages to fell this supposed physical and intellectual titan? Kirk hitting him with some kind of blunt instrument. Maybe that’s intended to be ironic, but it seemed like a pretty dumb way to be able to beat a eugenically enhanced man.
And then they just leave him on a planet to conquer! Maybe it seems dumber in hindsight when you know that he comes back to cause trouble, and most Star Trek episodes proceed without much real continuity, but still! Again, this is basically Hitler! I guess he’s intended to be more of a Napoleon, and this is meant to be his Elba, but it’s a strange resolution to this all.
Perhaps “Space Seed” suffers from high expectations from a late-coming viewer expecting tip-of-the-spear material with the introduction of a character as famous as Khan. Getting an episode where he putters around for most of the episode and everybody kind of marvels at him didn’t do it for me. When you’re talking about one of the most famous villains in Star Trek history, you expect better. Instead, I got a dull episode with strange plot developments and characters and reactions that didn’t make much sense. An inauspicious start, but hopefully one rectified by the time the franchise gets to its cinematic phase.
UPDATE: I rewatched this one about six months later, and while I'd probably upgrade it to a 5/10 at least, I think the vast majority of my criticisms still stand, and that the best thing to say about this episode is that it makes for an interesting prelude to The Wrath of Khan. The other side of the coin is that, having since watched the rest of TOS, this episode fits in with an unfortunate strain of Nazi apologia and excuse that the series indulges more often than I'd like.
That said, on the second go-round, I did find more that I appreciated. I've warmed to Montalban's performance a bit, as the bravado makes him an interesting foil for Kirk, though I may just be giving him retroactive credit after seeing TWoK. I'm also slightly more forgiving of his scene with McGivers as it has shades of battered spouse syndrome, however rudimentary, that maybe sorta kind of excuse at least a modicum of the sexism. And I like Spock's conversation with Khan at the "state dinner" teasing out his identity. It's still not my favorite episode, and there's a lot of issues I take with it, but there's more to appreciate than I initially gave it credit for.
Fantastic season finale. Had all the things I come to this show for. The action scenes in space were great both above and on the moon. I'm sorry to see Tracy and Gordo go, but I think the way it happened was quite powerful. Excited to see the ending tease season 3 focusing on / taking place on Mars, and given the additional time jump of it seems we'll likely be meeting a large swath of new characters. Can't wait for the next season, while Apple TV+ has a few good shows, this show alone justifies the existence of the service for me.
Can’t help but feel this was a little bit of a dud of an ending? Not sure, going to have to reflect on this for a little while, but immediately feels like a 6/10 ending for what was overall an 8/10 show.
Edit: Having read the book ending, yeah, I'm a little let down by this one. The book basically throws in another murder that Jacob is suspiciously close to after Hope winds up dead and Laurie finds a red stain on Jacobs bathing suit. This pushes Laurie over the edge with guilt as she is now totally convinced Jacob did it, resulting in her killing him with the car crash. I feel this is much more compelling ending as it adds a pattern of similar circumstances around Jacob, but still doesn't confirm he is the killer. and further drives home some of the central points of the show. The grey area between right and wrong, the decision between what is right ethically, and what is right for the family, and how hard it is to straddle that line for the people involved. How a parent copes with loving someone that they are convinced did a horrific act. It keeps the same ambiguity of the show ending while adding the finality of Jacobs death, meaning we may never know the truth.
Although it feels like I've bemoaned the entire ending here, I still really enjoyed the show, and would probably give the whole show about an 8/10 if pressed for a score. Would have just been great for them to have gone through with the book ending as it's a little darker and much more in-keeping with the shows tone and presentation.
The soap opera writers that have been put in charge of this ,once revered, franchise continue to distort and abuse the long and beloved history of Star Trek canon to subvert it to their own hand. In past seasons we've seen that Burnham was the reason Spock became who he was, we've lost beloved characters who have rejected everything they were before, Romulus was blown up and now we don't even have Vulcan anymore. Whatever reason these "writers" might have to do this is beyond me but it should be clear by now that it's malicious. Their ilk have destroyed 50 years of canon on Doctor Who, destroyed Star Wars and pretty much done the same to Trek. If rumors are to be believed they will soon include the Guardian of Forever and possibly deliver the final blow to Star Trek.
To the people defending this soap opera dribble... Well I don't know what to say to you. Character development, plot and the concept of coherent writing are cornerstones of anything that's good. These writers can't even keep track of events in the same episode let alone use a massive overarching storyline or how to benefit of over 50 years of worldbuilding.
It's disgraceful really what they have done and they should be ashamed of writing something that is below mediocre. But that appears to be modernday "entertainment" and by god... I hope it bites them back in their ass cause we'll all be worse off if it doesn't.
Wow, this was way better than I expected it to be.
A bit sad, that the federation seems to have strayed from its main mission.
The participation of Star Trek veterans as producers shows. Buildings and technology look like they belong in the ST Universe, no 2 million gigantic technological leaps in the first 45 minutes (well one, but that one is kind of needed...)
Best of all: They concentrated on the story instead of preaching some agenda.
So thats a 9/10 from me.
It wasn't as terrible as the rest of the season, but I'm honestly just glad it's over.
If you can get past the fact that Trish is a lying, backstabbing treacherous bitch who killed Jessica's mother when she didn't have to, this wasn't bad.
Somebody needs to tell her to take all her half written, half erased, mostly unsaved apologies and cram them up her ass.
I was wonderig why Alicia didn’t drive away while honking the car horn. This would draw the zombies away.
And it bothered me that they just sat there watching while 2000 walkers started walking to them. I mean, you see it coming - wouldn’t the first instict be to run?!
[7.7/10] The myth of The Walking Dead is supposed to be that it can go on forever. The bigwigs at AMC have declared as such. You can keep killing characters and adding in new ones ad infinitum. Each new face can have a different backstory, a different motivation, a different reason to be here. And there’s always new challenges in the lawless world that our heroes occupy to, you know, occupy them. There’s always more places to go.
Except that little of that is true. Sure, in principle, you can gradually filter characters in and out, and have new mountains for them to climb each episode. But in practice, two-thirds of each new crop of characters are some combination of forgettable and/or zombie bait. And as unlimited as the possibilities of the show are on paper, The Walking Dead’s track record says that we’ll get the same reheated group vs. group conflicts, the same sort of meditations on what it means to live in this state of the world, and the same cycles of suffering and recovery and loss and community.
So when the show goes big in an episode like “The Storm”, it stands out. There’s been so little that feels truly new on the show that something like the survivors withstanding a blizzard can almost get by on novelty alone. The challenges of keeping warm, of navigating in a blistering snow, of uncertain vision and terrain, are cousins of perils our heroes have already faced, but distinctive enough that it feels like a breath of fresh, frigid air.
It doesn't hurt the show’s visuals either. Aint The Walking Dead nice to look at? Even when the story sags and the dialogue dies on the vine, there’s a stark beauty to this series that helps make it tolerable even in the worst doldrums. With Greg Nicotero directing, the show makes the most of its snowside setting. The sense of uncertainty and paranoia as figures are hard to make out in the snow adds to the foreboding and fraught sense of the survivor’s journeys. Images of walkers frozen solid, or lines of huddled figures moving through a white canvas stand out. Even the scenes of the undead emerging from beneath the powder and threatening to crack the frozen pond has a little extra juice and visual splendor.
Granted, it’s not that different than the times we’ve seen walkers emerge from sand or mud. There’s nothing that new about our heroes making it through harsh conditions in caravans to safety. Blurred vision and the looming threat of an enemy collective are beats The Walking Dead has hit on multiple occasions.
But as much as I harp on the familiar, and the overly familiar, of this show, stories are ultimately less about beats than they are about choices. I get tired of the series’s painful voiceover monologues that bookend so many episodes and deliver so many clanging platitudes. I am utterly exhausted by how often the show resorts to having rotating sets of characters have one-on-one conversations, filled with overwrought dialogue, that directly establish whatever the point or theme is. Still, what drives the show for me -- in success and failure -- are the choices it makes, and has its characters make.
Sometimes those choices are frustrating. I have to admit, I was about ready to throw up my hands after last week’s culling. I am tired of this show knocking off the few remaining characters that I am invested in. I am tired of “shocking” deaths that seems to exist for shock’s sake. I am tired of seeing this show kill of children. And I am especially tired of it making Carol suffer.
Because she is one of those remaining few characters that I still care about on this show. It has had her come so far, sink so low, and yet come back and receive some so-very-earned happiness. The idea that after suffering so long, she finds a healthy relationship, regains her parenthood, and finds a measure of stability and peace after so much was taken from her is one of the few truly laudable journeys The Walking Dead has constructed in its nine seasons. To rip that away from her once more borders on the unconscionable.
And yet, she makes choices here, choices that have meaning. One of the more significant ones is to end her relationship with Ezekiel. I can’t say I love the move, especially when it gets wrapped in a weird love triangle-type thing with Daryl. But Carol/Ezekiel is one of the few pairings on the show worth caring about, and losing a child is one of those things that can be impassable for a couple. So there’s weight when Ezekiel tells his queen that he’ll always love her, and she responds that she’ll never regret the fairytale.
Bigger than that, she chooses not to kill Lydia, despite having every impulse to do so. As she tells Daryl in one of the more nicely laconic colloquies in the episode, she worries that she’s losing herself. She’s hurt and angry and lost after losing Henry. And yet, when her weapon is held at Lydia’s throat, she can only see someone else who blames themself for all that loss. With tears in her eyes, she can only see another child, a child that her son loved, and she relents. There’s true character revealed there, in the show’s deepest and most interesting figure, and carries the weight when so much in the series is crumbling.
Negan reveals his character in his choices here too. The show sets up the insult-slinging, shit-stirring asshole we knew through the last arc once again as he pokes and prods at Rosita, Gabriel, and the others. But when push comes to shove, he goes after Judith in the snow, despite an injured leg, despite the risk of freezing to death, and despite having to lug a canine along in the process.
Maybe saving a little girl and a dog through the snow is a cheap way to redeem Negan, but fuck me (“language!”) it’s effective. There’s always been something that Negan admired in the Grimes kids, the courage and chutzpah shown in Carl and Judith alike. Seeing him risk his own life to save hers in the spirit of that caring, or out of his fractured but potent admiration for Michonne, or his empathy for Ezekiel in losing a Kingdom, can’t help but make me glad to see his shit-eating grin at the end of the episode. I never asked for or wanted Negan’s redemption, even halfway redemption, but I’m unexpectedly happy to see him take the steps to earn it here.
But the biggest choice the survivors make here is to come together. That’s the overall theme of the episode and the season. There’s teases of threats to come and allies new and old emerging from the woodwork. More than that, though, there’s the sense that these connections became frayed and torn apart, and it made them weaker, more strained and susceptible to threats than strong and independent. Michonne says as much in case the writers think the audience missed it.
There’s catharsis in the dramatization of that. Seeing the refugees from the fallen Kingdom find safety in Hilltop, and resolve that their community comes with them, no matter where they are at the moment, is heartening. Seeing the struggles and threats of crossing Whisperer territory and staving off frostbite and fending off wintery walker attacks amount to a warm reunion and snowball fight at Alexandria is just as encouraging.
This sort of thing is not new either, though. If anything, it’s been The Walking Dead’s biggest trick since at least season 4 and arguably earlier -- break up the group and then warm the audience’s heart when you bring them back together again. We’ve seen declarations that this is a community again, that they’re rededicated to their principles, that there’s strength in working together, time and time again.
That’s where the myth starts to break down a little. You can shuffle the faces and names, shuffle the allegiances, even shuffle the weather to try to freshen things up. And when you do, you may pull out those moments of sweetness, of joy amid the darkness. You may even pull off one of the show’s better season finales, one that puts a bit more of a period at the end of the season than a semicolon.
But you still leave me wondering where the show goes from here. How many more people can it kill off before the whole thing seems futile? How many rival groups can you introduce with different coats of paint before it starts to feel rote? How many times can you rotate locations before it’s just variations on a theme. Nine seasons in, The Walking Dead is squeezing out every last ounce of juice from its premise, and every once in a while, it’s still pretty tasty and refreshing. It’s just tiring drinking the same basic cocktail -- of gore, war, loss, and recovery -- to where despite enjoying this finish quite a bit, I’m ready for this series to settle up.
I liked the episode but a big thing bothered me at the end:
While they were preparing to open the trucks a dozen armed people with long range AR's were watching them.
Why not just shoot at them and try to stop them? It was pretty obvious what their plan was so why not try and stop it before it's to late?
If they would start shooting they will need to get to cover which forces them to retreat/delay their plan.
I know it's a moral thing but if it means stopping ~2000 zombies from coming at the gates it'll be an easy decision...
And then they just jump to what's happening now. Hope the battle will follow next episode.
The plot is very messy and the characters are so dumb, so far this show is so poorly written
Harry Kim served 7 seasons and never got promoted. Tilly after 2 years. There is something wrong with that picture....
I also think we have to rename that show. Let‘s call it „Cry a lot Trek“... Its really hard to watch!!!!
Much as I love this show, I will never understand people rating stuff before they've seen it. Currently unaired and yet already 7 people have rated it; really helpful, guys. >_<
Edit: 3 months after my initial comment and 13 people have now rated it before it's aired. FFS.
Stupid decisions from EVERYONE, at this point I'm not rooting for anybody. Ok except for John Dorie.
The differentiation of the colours to establish the different timelines seems so pretentious to me.
I didn't know this was Ridley Scott... cool, but scary. Look and feel's like Prometheus, and Mother's got a bit too much David in her!
What's this bullshit about setting the warp core ratio at 25:1? There's only one intermix ratio: 1:1. We learned that in "Coming of Age".
The number of soundstage lights that the various Armus props and costumes reflect is amazing. Using such a reflective material was a big gamble—one I'm not sure paid off in the end.
I don't look forward to this episode when rewatching the series. It's kind of a disaster, from a writing perspective. Picard talking to an oil slick isn't nearly as ridiculous as several members of the production team have been quoted saying over the years, but it's not exactly the high-powered diplomacy we come to expect from Jean-Luc.
Mostly, though, it's the meaningless character death. It doesn't work. Unfortunately, the same thing happened at the end of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine season six, again because the actor wished to move on from the show.
In this case, I think Denise Crosby gave up too soon. I agree with something Wil Wheaton wrote years ago in a review of "Hide and Q":
I have to give up some respect for Michael Dorn. I can't imagine what it must have been like to play Worf in the first season, when he was one-dimensional and so incredibly stupid. He didn't do much more than Denise did in these early episodes, and where she decided to quit the series out of frustration, Michael stuck it out, eventually developed a complex and beloved character, became a regular on DS9, and was in all the TNG movies.
—
https://web.archive.org/web/20071011201935/http://www.tvsquad.com/2007/02/19/star-trek-the-next-generation-hide-and-q/(the original site no longer exists)
When I originally went from watching later-season reruns of TNG on television to running through the series from start to finish, the most striking thing was how flat the writing was at the beginning for Worf. All of the characters needed time to grow depth, but it was especially surprising just how far Worf in particular had come. And yes, Michael Dorn really played the long game, where Denise Crosby seemed to rather impatiently throw in the towel. (Whether Worf would have developed as much as he did if Tasha Yar had remained on the show is another question altogether.)
The good points of this episode, though, are actually the scenes where Deanna gets into Armus' head. Didn't see that coming. Early Troi is really not a very good character, but her empathic abilities really work for me in this one.
