The comments on this episode are hilarious.
I had a suspicion the show might forget last season's cliffhanger and move on, but THREE years later? What??
So they apparently caught the guy behind that assassination attempt and exposed that whole organization. So they basically threw away last season's cliffhanger. It's mostly a bad thing, but also a bit realistic in how that plotline played out without us watching it, making the world feel more real, as we do only see one day each season.
Though as someone else said, they later addressed that plotline in the video-game.
I'm glad you brought Jack and Kate together in the interim years, but then why did you have to break them up? Why? I guess it makes sense with how Jack is now; much darker because of his undercover operation. But why did he go undercover for so long when he had Kate and Kim and a heart problem?
And Jack has a drug addiction? Like what the hell? That won't have been good for his heart either. Why can't they just give Jack a break? Jesus christ. At least he didn't take it, but i feel like they're not going to just put this once scene of him rejecting it and then never bring it up again.
Why give Palmer and Jack a stamina debuff? Why? It's a freaking action show! Do you know how stupid it looks when both characters have heart/stamina problems?
I like Jack has a partner, and he seems like a good guy.
I like Palmer is in a relationship.
It's funny there's concerns about Palmer's health when right now in the US election there's a choice between two 80 year olds.
I'm glad Tony and Michelle are married, and that Tony is director of CTU. It's nice Tony looks to be promoted to the CIA, and but he says he won't go unless Michelle can go with him and have a job there. He won't go without her having a good job there, even though she said she'd go and muddle through. Well done Tony.
I'm glad Kim is working at CTU and is at least part of the central plotline, but now she has ANOTHER love interest. Literally one every season. And they've been together 3 months and now it's time to tell people? Really? 3 months is nothing at all.
An interesting, inconsistent and mixed second season, but still quite compelling overall. The moral complexity is much greater, which i very much appreciate, but the plotting and characterization feel worse than the previous season.
Towards the end of the season there was a lot of wheel spinning and annoying characters and Kim's annoying storyline. So much annoying time spent on the chip and proving it and Kim's storyline and Palmer being betrayed and ousted. The season is a mixed bag of being compelling and boring, compounded by stupid things happening in the plots and Kim's storyline being rubbish all throughout the season, and we also had the early boring Kate Warner plotline.
I like Lin, and even Mike as a character because he was interesting in what he did and who he was.
I grew to like Michelle, i like her and Tony as a couple.
I also like and want Kate and Jack to be a couple.
Bring back Milo as the IT guy!
I didn't really care much about the end battle. The bigger villains behind the bad guys are barely built up, especially compared to the first season. Then suddenly the bigger bad guy has a backup plan from nowhere at the end. It's completely unnecessary and a bad cliffhanger to do for the end of a season finale, and robs us of a lot of the catharsis of what's happened over this long season, but it does make me wonder what's going to happen next, as i don't really remember. And why do we have to have a seemingly direct continuation of this season? I don't want to see the same annoying characters having annoying storylines, i want to see what happens after all this. Why would trying to or succeeding in assassinating Palmer start a war? How? When the evidence was revealed it wasn't those countries AND now the cabinet will be make sure to be CLEAR with the evidence AND the assassin of Palmer was a white woman and her method was a virus through hand contact. How does that start a war? HOW?
Stupid annoying Kim Bower sees a guy almost kill someone. She then shoots in the air wasting a bullet (like she wasted a bullet a while ago shooting someone's window) and then this idiot guy actually goes toward her even though she's pointing a gun at him? Stupid. Even though he has a pregnant wife, stupid. Then she doesn't shoot him even though he's trying to get the gun and he's already shown murderous intent, stupid, and lets him take the gun, stupid. Kim's storyline has been mostly useless crap, but as someone else said, it helps to keep watching it because she's hot.
Why does the bad guy want Kate warner? What possible reason when she's just a random civilian? Also, i guess Jack is on the run again, gone rogue.
George Mason is a god damn hero. Well done, George, well done.
Man, the exchange with Jack and Kim was so emotional and such good acting. The exchange with Jack and George was so damn good.
Palmer has handled things well, but he's been put in a very difficult position now. But the thing is, this is partially his fault for all this happening, due to his foreign policy not being strong enough. It was so bad that even his own high ranking intelligence agency members/leaders conspired against him to wake him up, and other countries took advantage of this and plotted against America. A nuclear bomb was almost detonated in a major city, and they barely avoided that fate. Plus, if one of the bombs was a fake, then maybe the original bomb was taken? So it's still out there.
Should America invade those other countries due to the events that happened? I don't know. Do you let them get away with it and continue to be enemies? Or do you send in troops to topple the government? Or just bomb them from afar? All morally interesting things with different consequences.
The plot of this season i don't think has been as good as the last one so far, but the moral complexity is absolutely better. This was a great episode. I was hooked with most of the plot and very invested in the emotional depth going on.
Get rid of this annoying new IT woman and bring back MIlo!
I'm glad David is getting rid of Sherri, even though she mostly proved her innocence. Just can't trust her.
We don't talk about Kim's storyline.
I like Mason. After he left, there were no beeps of the clock ticking down to indicate an ad break, and i wonder if that was intentional. He really proved himself this season, and it's a shame he's dying now. What a good character.
Put more pain on Jack! She'd break easily! Still, it was good how he found out through trickery. Jack does a surprising amount of clever trickery, he's not just all action, he's got a lot of knowledge and uses it effectively, as well being a bloodhound on an investigation, and is willing to do what it takes to succeed. Love it.
When you read about people talking about 24, it's sometimes made to look as if there was no nuance to 24 depicting terrorists and terrorism plotlines, as if it was all patriot propaganda. But no, in the first season it eastern europeans who were the bad guys, and it was more about a revenge plot than a terrorism plot. In this second season you have a mix of middle eastern terrorism (no doubt influenced by 9/11, which happened a year before this season aired) and people working within the government against their own people, so domestic terrorism. It's not all painted black and white either, as we see with that British guy with brown skin color being suspected as a terrorist but he's not, and he talks about racial profiling, and another example is we see with the imam in the episode trying to help CTU and talking about how some may have terrorist thoughts but don't act on them. The show DOES show the nuance in this tense situation.
I love the moral complexity in the episode, which is what i remembered the show doing, and it's sure living up to the memory. I love Palmer authorizing the torture of the head CIA guy, and i love Jack threatening the terrorist's family. Mike made an excellent example with the weapons factory near a hospital. And all the rationale is absolutely right in my eyes, a few innocent lives to save millions. But i do admit that it can be a slippery slope, and you have to be careful. But in real life, no one and no western government would ever go this far, and millions would die. They wouldn't even go so far as to even do threatening actions, that's how morally compromised governments are in the modern day. In real life, the terrorist would sit in a room and be talked with in a calm manner, and soon after the nuclear bomb would kill millions of people. Then people will blame the government for failing to protect them and vote them out. Ironic, really, the government doesn't want to ever go that far because most people or a portion of people would disagree with their action to protect them, yet they'd still get voted out if they fail to protect them. Voted out even by most of the same people. It's a ridiculous irony, yet it's real life. For the record, i think most people would agree with the actions taken in this episode, but real life governments would be too afraid of the backlash from a minority of the population, whether it's small or large, and they'd be scared of the backlash from the justice system (as flawed as it is), and they'd be scared of their own compromised nature, as they might realize they don't have the courage to do what is necessary to protect the people and the country they govern.
Loved Sherri actually (probably, maybe?) working for David all along.
Loved Jack disobeying the president and ordering the death of the kid, but It's an absolute cop out with the kid still being alive and it was just a trick. If they actually went through with the moral complexity then i'd give the episode an 8.
What a pair of morons. Kim and her dopey boyfriend becoming even more annoying, and almost caused the death of an innocent cop. Stupid writing.
As an agent, why are you letting the daughter talk to her boyfriend? How about saying no and getting back on with business since we're trying to find A NUCLEAR BOMB. Stupid. How did he later get taken by surprise by her? She would have had to open the door to get in. Why is the dumb daughter involved in such a big plot? But apparently she's not so dumb and is a super spy assassin person.
Why is Sherri betraying David? If he loses power then Sherri has no link to any potential power, it's stupid! And why would she have any power in the first place to be involved in this big plot? Stupid!
We're getting back on track again with good developments with Jack and Palmer and their merging of plotlines a bit. That was nice, and i had a tear in my eye from Palmer's reactions toward what was going on and having to make that tough decision. You could see the conflicted feelings within him, Jack who had helped him so much and saved his life multiple times, and then when Jack talked about his daughter, Palmer was even more hurt. Damn, awesome scene. Plus, we had less story of Kim, which is awesome. And with the cia terrorist guy plotline it was nice the bit when they were in the interrogation room. I also like seeing Mason really trying to stop the bomb today. He changed since his diagnosis, not caring about ambition anymore and just trying to serve the greater good no matter what. Awesome, love it.
Kim will you shut the hell up and get out of the story! Dumb annoying character! Possibly even moreso than the first season! Get her out of the story! Her storyline is dragging the entire show down.
The legacy of this show will always be dragged down and tainted due to her storyline in the seasons.
Even the other storylines i'm kinda fed up with. The terrorist family cia and Tony it's all so dragged out and not that interesting.
Even Bauer and Nina like it just feels strange, like it hasn't fully kicked in yet.
And Palmer seems like he's getting betrayed by everyone around him, like what?
Jack's interrogation of Nina was fantastic, and i liked the scene at the end. I like progress being made with the father supporting terrorism plotline, and i like David's ex-wife having a role in his plotline now, even though it doesn't quite make sense how much access she still has, but i guess i can buy it. Favors and people giving her favors in the play maybe she gets back with David someday and then they'd have access and she'd owe them a favor. I like the growing conspiracy plotline. Kim's plotline is still rubbish. This was a good episode overall though! We're getting back on track.
Kim Bauer is boring and annoying and her journey is boring and now she has a boyfriend all of a sudden who she then blabbers about the nuclear weapon instead of him trusting her. Jeez! Which moron decided in a terrorism investigation show that we should have a seperate domestic violence plotline with annoying characters? Stupid. Everything else is boring except for Bauer's parts, though Palmer's seemed to get interesting at the end.
Not that good of an episode with a lot of wheel spinning apart from the end. Now things have gotten a bit more interesting. Do you let a building blow up, a government building full of people, in order to keep an agent's cover intact to hopefully lead you to the certain threat of a nuclear bomb?
It's a high price to pay. Would you do it? Would you?
Palmer wouldn't, and he didn't as soon as he found out.
Jack risked his life and cover to warn them, but it wasn't fast enough. Still, he didn't break his cover entirely to stop what happened, even though he could.
It's an interesting situation, and seeing the differences in morality with Jack and Palmer and other people involved. And we also see how Jack and Palmer are indirectly disagreeing a bit with what is happening, whereas in the first season they were nearly always on the same page.
It's very interesting morality things. It's why it's so boring and annoying to watch Kim's rubbish adventures, and that woman investigating her sister's terrorist boyfriend. Get back to the interesting stuff! The creators still haven't learned their lesson from the first season.
Would i do it? Me, the seemingly arbiter of morality as i often wax and preach about it. Would i do it? Me, apparently the proponent of serving the greater good.
Well... It's a tough decision, and i've thought about it, and well... No, i don't think i could. It's too high a price to pay.
And this is the thing; who is wrong and who is right? Me? You? Jack? Palmer? Who knows. It's a personal moral decision to decide what you think is best, and for me personally, i just couldn't sacrifice all those people for the possibility of a lead becoming successful. Maybe i'm wrong, maybe i'm right, or maybe i'm neither. Maybe this goes beyond morality, into a decision where there is no true right or wrong answer. Who knows, but i'm glad this show is bringing up such morally interesting things to think about. It isn't all just action or investigation, it does raise morally complex situations to think about.
Once again 50% of the plotlines i don't care about and i won't care about until probably half the season is over; the woman investigating terrorist guy and Kim's dumbass adventures. Ugh. We just want to watch Jack Bauer!
Loved the bit with Jack's moral complexity at the end. Do the end justify the means? Does killing one pedophile murderer illegally to save millions of lives worth it?
The justice system and most governments would say no. Interesting, isn't it? The perhaps flawed morality of humanity, or most of humanity, or the justice system and governments. Yet it's how this world is run.
While i had forgot much of the plot in the near 10 years since i last watched this show, i remembered major moments and twists, and the show, or at least this season so far, is exactly as addicting and thrilling as i remember it to be. It's a good season of television overall.
Most of the episodes are really good, but there's a surprising amount that are merely okay, and not that good due to what happens in them or the slow pacing. It's hard to sustain a compelling thriller of 24 epiosdes in a season, and this show manages to mostly do it, with quite a few stumbles along the way.
It's a very compelling and addicting show, you just want to find out what happens next. It uses technology quite well for the time, and it's probably the first show to use cell phones so prominently in the story and to dramatic effect. But there's also occasional touchscreen technology that is years ahead of it's time, and you have other technology like being tracked by satellite. It's all handled quite well to dramatic effect. The thing is though, Jack Bauer's journey is the most compelling, with his investigation and trying to rescue his family, and then David's plotline is less interesting at first, but soon becomes a compelling conspiracy drama. Then you have the mother plotline and daughter plotline which i don't really care for, so that's 50% of the plotlines i don't really care about and it's like that for quite a while. Still, even besides that, it's a good dramatic season, and the mother and daughter plotlines becomes more interesting later on. It also becomes less of a soap opera mid season and really focuses on the thrilling drama, action, and investigation. Though later there's still overdramatic and melodramatic things.
The plotlines of the season are generally good all through the season as they do change. But there's also some good characters in the show that make you want to keep watching. Compelling good guys and bad guys and characters you really remember and grow to have respect for. The central concept of the whole season being 24 hours is utilized exceptionally well, surprisingly, since you may think doing a concept like this might be a bit gimmicky or odd or rough or things don't mesh really well, but actually it mostly works very well, and it's glued together with the generally good writing.
Spoilers for the whole season:
I like mid-season Jack rescues his family and kills the main bad guy, but there's still bigger bad guys behind him. But at least he gets a break and isn't on the run anymore. It gives us all a break and to set up future stuff and have a bit of reflection and reunion and a break from things.
I like Tony, the hacker guy Milo even though we didn't see much of him. I like Nina, i even like that asshole boss guy Mason. Not as a person but as a character he was good. Love Bauer and Palmer. I loved Palmer getting rid of his wife at the end and not falling for her tricks, and i like his commitment to honesty and justice (same with Bauer, come to think of it), and i like the bromance between him and Bauer. There's so many good "respect/honor" moments this season, that just make you feel good if that's something you value. Loved it.
I don't care about Teri dying, she acted like an idiot and kept following Nina around and at the end and followed her out of unncessary jealousy and she died for it. I don't care much she died, which is not good writing. I didn't even remember her name until i had to look it up. Still, it was unncessary to kill Teri at the end. I mean why? You had her raped in the season and then she finds out she was already pregnant and then you kill her and the unborn child off? No, you don't do that, and it's unncessary melodrama. Still, overall it was a good season, and i really enjoyed it.
Nina doesn't make sense to be an enemy. It's supposed to be a big twist at the end, but it doesn't make sense at all except for that one thing at the beginning if you were still paying attention, that of her console doing that one bad thing, which didn't really make sense in itself since she was away at the time, and why would she use her own console? I guess she could have used remote access to that console to do the bad thing at the time, but still, why use your own console for that? And it wasn't even that major of a thing. And if she recruited Jamie then why didn't Jamie say anything? And Nina has also been an extremely strong ally to Bauer throughout the whole season and almost died for him multiple times, yet she's still loyal to the Slovakians even though she was going to die multiple times inadvertantly due to their plans and jack's saved her multiple times? Makes no sense at all except to do a last minute twist. I'm rewatching the show so i knew she was a villain from the start, and yeah it's not built up well at all. She could have done so many things to stop Bauer and his family or help the villain's mission and yet she didn't. I guess it's all explained that she was supposed to stay as a plant in CTU. Whatever. Still a good episode overall with Bauer and Palmer and Kim escapaing, even though before it was annoying with her being captured again.
This idiot girl stupidly goes back to a camp of criminals who will kill or rape her, instead of leaving to go for help.
Stupid writing.
But Jack's move was nice with the vest.
It was her computer but it wasn't her who done it because she was away? Why do this plot then? To make it seem like "Oh she might be a traitor" drama? Eh? And those two girls just happen to get trapped in a city area and always run into their kidnappers? No, that doesn't make sense. Then she runs out onto a deserted road and sudden car knocks her over? No. Then one of the people working with Jack says he needs to be relieved even though he hasn't done much if anything wrong and there's no proof against him? No, that doesn't really make sense. A lot of things don't really make sense this episode, along with the dumb girlfriend of that woman asking for an extra million even though they're dealing with extremely dangerous people? No, that doesn't really make sense except to explore the theme of greed, even though it doesn't really make sense, neither does keeping the other woman alive.
Brilliant. THIS is how you do a pilot episode. Strong characterization for the main character and good characterization for the supporting characters. And they balance the various groups of characters really well, it's like a proto game of thrones but a thriller version. It's excellent! And there's a realistic history that's gone on in the show and we get bits and pieces of that, though it's a bit soap-opera-y for my tastes. I also don't like the daughter plotline, but it does serve to highlight some of the stupidity and dangerousness of party culture and how trusting people still were back then and how you shouldn't be. I like the splitscreen real time parts as well and they're done well, which i haven't really seen done since. The story is quite good and well set up. This show really was ahead of it's time, or at least the pilot episode is.
Hitting us over the head with an obvious and clumsy social media allegory.
It's too obvious and too exaggerated, and RTD seems like a boomer out of touch with modern technology and social media when he wrote this.
We follow an annoying character all the way through the episode. An episode where the doctor and Millie don't do much except stand still and talk.
You'd think it would be simple common sense in your writing to not make a character so unlikeable, and then to make them LIKEABLE later on, which this episode doesn't do. Fine, you go the route of making them a kind of villlain instead, and then racist at the end cementing that. Well okay, but you still have most of the episode following an annoying and boring character, and it will be like that on every rewatch as the doctor and Ruby don't do much except be little avatars standing still and talking, while we mostly follow the annoying boring guest character.
It's not a good episode at all, it's boring.
The character can't walk forward without arrows on a screen? No, that doesn't make sense.
Underdeveloped writing of artificial intelligence. Of all the potential of AI and what it could be or do, it's basically addressed in one minute and then completely forgotten about the next. While the creatures it created have an interesteing design, they are also underdeveloped, both in any kind of lore (they were created, that's it) and weak with how slow they move. These creatures could have been anything or had any capability (created by an AI with advanced technology, both incredibly advanced biological technology to create these kinds of creatures, and high technology of colonies on planets), but instead they're slow and they're only hunting people in alphabetical order? Doesn't really make sense at all, none of it does.
Then at the end they throw in a last minute racism scene. When i heard they were exploring racism this season because of the skin color of the doctor, i thought there would be a whole episode exploring it, or it being a theme and some interactions that would be explored through the episode, but here it's just thrown in last minute, but Ncuti acted the scene well. But in throwing this in last minute and making the characters racist, i think that undermines everything else that has gone before, and also made things very obvious in what RTD has set out to do. You'd call it bad fanfiction if you wrote a story where "Okay so i'm going to make a racist character and make them dumb and stupid and bad things happen to them. I'll make a whole planet of racists and they'll all die in stupid ways because they're all stupid and then the survivors of the racism don't listen to the doctor and then they die, yayyyyyyyy"
It's ridiculous, yet that is what happened in the episode.
The way they've set up to be space racists doesn't really make sense, and how it's thrown in at the end is just plain odd and not been built up enough. When it's revealed, it feels too obvious what RTD has set out to do, with no nuance to the discussion or to the story of it. As i said, it's just bad fanfiction that doesn't try to make sense or build things up and provide any nuance to any point. I liked the end scene and Ncuti acted it well, and i got the point that was being told and we see the first racist reaction to the doctor, it just all felt too obvious and forced, and wasn't built up nor explored enough, just thrown in at the last minute.
It was a good episode, if a tragic one, and another damning indictment of the doctor.
A few months with the doctor cost over 20 years of her life. A life of failed relationships, a broken relationship with her mother, and a constant stalker upon her life which she never got the answer to who it was or why it was happening, until the end of her life.
How pitifully sad.
And she lived the rest of her life, affected by the constant presence of the woman following her, resulting in more abandonment. She said everyone abandoned her, and there were no one at her bedside when she died. I guess her family must have tried to interfere with the woman following her, or maybe she never had a family. Thus Ruby ended up a bit of a bitter old woman, who lived a lonely life, yet never truly alone due to the woman following her.
How sad. Because of traveling with the doctor. Though it wasn't all his fault, as it was her choice of how to live her life afterwards.
At least she helped saved the world after the first 20 years, probably, even though it was strange how that plotline lined up with the notes in the circle, doesn't really make sense.
But she still lived the rest of her life in a state of fear, confusion, and sadness. Because of the doctor.
And even though they're in a time loop (somehow) it's then broken (somehow). Doesn't make sense.
How does it make sense the prime minister would resign? Previously the people ran away and just hated her/wanted to be away from her. That's it. Plus, the effect of how it happens and why it's so powerful and permanent and a perception filter doesn't really make sense except to artificially disguise the mystery, along with UNIT being totally defeated, no. Though it was nice seeing UNIT and Kate again, and i liked some parts of the episode that felt a bit scary. I also liked the mystery aspect, though it went on far too long, and the resolution was disappointing, and we didn't really get enough of an answer. I liked seeing more of Ruby and her aging and her interactions with people, though there wasn't much depth in the conversations except the one with Kate. The prime minister plotline felt a bit rushed as well. And as someone else said, where did the doctor go and why? And all for stepping on that barely put together cotton circle? What if the wind broke it? Could it? Eh.
And the doctor nor Ruby know the torture Ruby experienced in this episode, all due to her travels with the doctor is how she ended up enduring this.
The doctor ruined her whole life from the age of 18.
It's sad, melancholic, and the doctor is a villain, and i'm tired of hiding it anymore.
Edit: The more i think about this episode the worse it gets, which is the same for all episodes this season so far except maybe Boom. This is what happens when you lean more into nonsensical supernatural and fantasy stuff rather than sci-fi, and because it's more imaginative, more people will fall for it. Most people don't like to engage their mind critically with the creative media they consume, so it's understandable, and i also acknowledge personal taste is subjective in what we like. Might lower the rating to 6. 6.5 would be perfect, but that's not an option.
Good episodes and the best ones are those that you always like to think back on, and the good parts persist in your mind over time.
Wow. It's a slow paced doctor investigation light horror drama that follows the events of the previous film, but doesn't feel like much of a true sequel. It feels like a standalone film or a generic horror franchise film in some ways, but it does mostly respect the events of the previous film but not so much the characters. In regards to the horror, there isn't much at all except a bit of creepy moments and atmosphere, but the best way to explain is, why should i be scared when Sadako KISSES the guy during the "scary" part. I enjoyed it, i liked seeing it, but it doesn't fit in this story, and it takes me completely out of the horror.
It's a decent drama film though. Though often strange, and becomes much moreso towards the end or in the second half. The doctor is investigating what happened but he's also grappling with his own demons.
It's feels more like a standalone film, what with a minor character from the previous film playing a supporting character in this. At least, i think it's the right character, though she was called his student in the previous film and his girlfriend in this, but i think we can assume she was his girlfriend as well but wanted to keep it secret because she was also his student, i guess.
The structure of the film is strange enough that i like it in a way, and there's some oddly deep moments.
It gets strangely low-key sci-fi with it's scientific explanation for what is going on. Which would have been good if this was kind of the first film, but, even so as the second film, it still kinda works, and it's interesting
But it still leaves some things unexplained. Well, while we do get some answers for some of the films previous questions like with the scientific explanations, it still doesn't really make sense, which is compounded by the things that don't make sense in this film.
Later on in the film it gets super weird and absurd, but in bad ways. Sex with Sadako? The instant giving birth thing? Genetic fast growth of a human and ressurecting/cloning? And all manner of nonsensical things and science ideas. What??
But even with how ridiculous it kept getting, i actually kinda liked it in a very strange and absurd way. Maybe also in a so bad it's good way.
What was once a supernatural kind of mindless evil being, becomes... Through accident, a supernatural evil being looking like it will conquer the world? I don't know. It's all just... Strange.
Though i say accident, they retcon as that psychic guy helping Sadako, i guess. Or maybe he was convinced or controlled by Sadako after death.
The ending goes completely absurdly epic and worldwide changing in scope. It's absurdly ambitious and strange and just plain weird as a sequel to the first film.
The film isn't good, but i definitely think it's interesting enough to be worth watching.
This. THIS, is what Doctor Who should be. Trust Moffat to knock it out of the park with his standalone episode.
THIS is what Doctor Who should be like. Impactful, emotional, good story, good characters.
I loved this episode. I loved it. This shows that Doctor Who can survive, and even thrive in the new era. But i fear this is going to be the exception in this season. The old-school Moffat delivering a classic style of episode that is probably going to end up the best in the season.
When do you ever see a doctor leave their companion at the start? I thought that was interesting.
The kid was kind of annoying.
Doesn't make sense Ruby was on a timer to stay alive instead of being killed.
Doesn't make sense that guy beat the whole AI algorithm.
But apart from those quibbles, i quite enjoyed this episode and felt emotionally impacted from it. The Doctor was good, though i would have liked him be a bit more persuasive or powerful, like if he ended up proving to the Anglican soldier that he had knowledge or support of the higher ups or he had some special kind of clearance. I just wanted a bit more from the Doctor in this situation. But i still liked what he done and how he was this episode, and i liked Ruby as well in some of the things she did, but i just wanted more from her too. Maybe i'm a bit greedy when it comes to what i want these days, but i still enjoyed the episode, and i liked the banter between the Doctor and Ruby, and i liked The Doctor calling her kinda stupid when he would get off the mine, which surprised her. That moment gave us some of the classic early Doctor moments with their companion, and it shows us a bit more of this incarnation's personality, though of course we know he's a more positive incarnation in general still, which i like actually, as it's quite different to previous ones. But this incarnation still has some of that darkness like what he expressed towards the Anglican soldier. I guess i wanted more darkness though, more anger, or maybe if there was a conversation between the Doctor and the AI, and then we'd see some of that darkness and anger, especially towards such a powerful being/algorithm as he was up against here. Instead, this planet wide algorithm barely had a personality. There were some seeds of a personality or sentience (which should have been compounded by the showcase of the AI of the cannisters) but instead it pretty much turned out to be nothing and the algorithm AI was beat in seconds.
It also doesn't really make sense about these soldiers just fighting against their own technology. It doesn't make sense from an individual soldier point of view, nor futuristic technology point or view, nor corporate, societal or cultural point of view. Basically it doesn't make sense at all if you think about it even a little bit, except in the only sense of the story as in it being the theme of anti-capitalism. That we see the portrayal in the story of unchecked futuristic capitalism, which is nonsensical realistically, but it makes for a good and interesting story, and i did enjoy watching it and seeing the themes of capitalism and religion explored somewhat.
But even with that story and the themes, we still have the emotional heart of the episode, as the Doctor is stuck and people are dying. I enjoyed it, it's a really good episode.
Music is the plot.
Ugh.
Sigh.
The story was okay, but you hardly see the beatles, and of what little you see isn't that good until the end bit. And that's it. That's pretty much the only good or important bit about going to the past. That and some rubbish dialogue about music in various eras.
The Doctor and Ruby are saved because the companion is SUPER SPECIAL WITH SUPER SPECIAL POWERS BECAUSE OF HER BIRTH.
Ugh.
Jinkx Monsoon was good as the main villain. Maybe a little overacted, but they were a good villain, entertaining while also believable in their dark moments and moments of madness. It was a pretty good character too, and we got a bit more interesting lore.
Why is the episode so damn awkward? The music battle was awkward, both in concept and execution, and with the actors not really playing the instruments. The deeper moments and dialogue between The Doctor and Ruby felt awkward. But Millie has better acting this episode, and Ncuti is still good. Plus, there's a better balance of the serious and campy this episode, though there's still room for improvement. I liked how stylish everyone was this episode.
Why did the doctor win a music battle against the literal personification of music? Stupid.
And then afterward, the doctor only came one note away from banishing them? But then failed on the last note even after doing the other ones?
Ugh.
And of course, The Doctor and Ruby are saved, again, this time by the beatles. And in this timeline the beatles went their whole life not producing music, just sounds. Then they're able to make such powerful music randomly that they beat the Maetro.
Ugh.
Sigh.
Don't even think about trying to make this make sense in the timeline. It doesn't make any sense at all that now "music" has been reintroduced to the world at this moment in history.
Stupid.
It was a decent episode, better than the first one for sure.
Then, even though every episode is short of time, they do something at the end here which is an amazing use of time.
Sorry, i mean a huge waste of time.
THEY LITERALLY DO A MUSICAL AT THE END INSTEAD OF ANYTHING STORY OR CHARACTER ORIENTED.
Stupid, stupid, stupid, childish.
In most tv shows and movies, it's generally agreed that when kids are there, they can easily be annoying, and make the film/episode more annoying.
So Russel T Davies, for the first episode of a new Doctor Who season, decided to introduce an array of child characters.
Child characters nearly always fail. Child oriented plots always, always, always fail. Yet here is another, and of course it fails.
I tried to give it a chance. I liked it up until the kids.
This was supposed to be the proper start to a new season of Doctor Who, and the proper start for this doctor and companion rather than the christmas special "The Chuch on Ruby Road" which was a decent if lackluster special, and this first episode is exactly the same quality. Many fans were displeased with the christmas special or thought it was okay like i did. Those were the general consensus rather than it being particularly good or bad. We were hoping this first episode would be a lot more better, and maybe even more mature, or at least a more mature start to show us what Russell is capable of, like with how in the past he often managed to balance the serious with the campy quite well, and sometimes he would write really dark episodes like Midnight. This episode was supposed to be a glimpse into what the season would be like, and Doctor Who as a whole in this new era.
And i am sorely disappointed.
I am happy to say at least that Ncuti Gatwa FEELS like The Doctor. He thinks and acts and talks like The Doctor but a new incarnation of him. Except there is a certain wisdom and old age missing from the dialogue. Which you would think there would be more of, given The Doctor's age. In-universe i can only surmise that this doctor wants to escape that kind of past of himself. That he's a new, fresh person, wanting to reconnect with his youth and fully embrace that side and role of him. That of the young man enjoying himself and traveling and not having many connections. I find it a bit superficial though, and even a bit reckless to have this kind of attitude, though it's still only early days in analyzing this incarnation of the doctor. He didn't talk to Ruby much about the potential dangers of his travels, adding to his recklessness.
I was surprised by how funny The Doctor was this episode, i liked it. Some laughs surprised me though, like with how he made the babies cry. I thought that seemed a bit out of character, but it wouldn't exactly be, if this incarnation's morality was a bit skewed as i already suspect. He's still The Doctor though, and you do see and feel that clearly in the episode. He has his cleverness and wonder and cool side, along with moments of depth and wisdom. I liked it, and i like Ncuti in the role.
Ruby as the companion though, i have more issue with. Millie Gibson does a decent job, but it's clear to me that she is inexperienced acting. Her facial expressions and mannerisms and speech look to to me as inexperience in the acting field. Maybe part of that is how young she is, being 18 or 19 when she filmed this, or maybe she just isn't very good. However, she does a decent job, and she isn't too bad. As for the character herself, i'm sure not sure. I kinda like her, but i need to see more of her and i need to see her properly tested, and i need to see how she acts with various people and aliens and when she's away from The Doctor. I don't know much about her or what she's capable of. I know she's got a tough streak in her, and i know she can be caring and kind, and curious too, so i guess we'll wait to see more of her.
It was a weak episode in general really. No strong villain, and the supposed villain wasn't really a villain. The nani does something supposedly wrong later on, gets told off and then she's alright again.
There is a disconnect in tone between the aggressive and creepy nature of the monster and it's behavior contrasted against the silly cringe child people. Then there is only a silly tone throughout the rest of the episode when we find out the creature is made from bogey's and other such sillyness. I intensely disliked it all.
One of the babies goes to fight the monster. Stupid. But listen to this. So the baby then hides after it hears the monster roar, right, and goes to hide. Then, the doctor finds the baby because he can smell the baby had shit itself.
That's literally the plot of what happens.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
I hated the baby characters.
You would think given the political leanings and activism of the creators and stars that there would be a political message concerning the babies and the baby farms, and well, there is, but it isn't overt or targeting at a specific group, not that it matters as it's clumsily and thinly written. But it's not the focus of the episode nor does it derail it, and nor is the political message overt in an annoying or patronizing way. It's a very small aspect of the episode and it doesn't really mean anything.
The episode feels too rushed over the deeper moments. The dialogue feels less good compared to doctor-companion interactions in the past, for every single pairing.
I liked the doctor in the air lock, even though it didn't really make sense with how powerful the pressure would be from venting an air lock.
We saw about 10 babies, and in only 6 years, they managed to produce enough shit to power the engine of a spaceship. This is a literal plot point.
Makes no sense at all. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
It's an okay if mediocre episode with decent moments, and it sure ain't good. It's possibly one of if not THE worst first episode of a Doctor Who season. I am sorely disappointed. It's too silly, childish and cringe for the most part. The balance between serious and campy was not done well at all.
I love it. Love these kinds of episodes in episodic shows. Actual character progression and change, it's fun!
These days though, this kind of episode would be done in season 2 or 3. At least this episode rewards long time viewers of the show.
The old captain would have backed Goren and not suspended him or make him take a psych eval. The current captain hasn't known him long enough.
I was happy seeing Goren's brother seem to have got clean and they were getting closer, and Goren had a nephew, but then it all went bad in the end. Brother is still on drugs, Nephew used the chaos of Goren's imprisonment to escape. Goren suspended. It's all quite interesting.
Directors cut, which adds 30 minutes.
After 2 damn hours, Dan is already supposed to be this powerful psychic, but we see almost none of it in the whole 2 hours. Then when it really matters, it just doesn't work, and he's about to be killed by some normal power level psychic ghost person. He will literally die, until he's saved by his friend. Ugh. And then there's ANOTHER opportunity, where he could save his friend from killing himself, but no, Dan isn't powerful enough to stop him. Ugh. It's annoying.
It's kind of annoying how much of the plot is centered around the psychic girl too, rather than Dan himself.
He has some cool moments though. And good build up.
And while he still does some good stuff near the end, i was still disappointed that not enough was done with him at the end.
It stops becoming scary though after about an hour, because the good guys are so strong. There's also much less personal drama, and it turns into more of a violence drama and psychic fights and mind games.
It becomes less like a pure horror and more about a fight between psychic good guys and psychic bad guys. Some good scenes though.
And i do like in the story how the villains face challenges and horrors. Needed much more of that in the hotel, we hardly had anything. The main villain just had a random encounter with the lift full of blood, hardly reacted and then walked on. It's a complete disconnect in tone with the film and the audience. Whereas in Kubrick's film, it was at least delivered dramatically, and had impact on the screen in a heavily visual scene and feeling. Here it was just copying, and there was nothing, no feeling or dramatic or themeing. Ugh.
Still, the end villain gets dispatched in a quick and mediocre way, especially after her "power up" from the flasks, yet all it amounted to was... Oh yeah she knew when the girl would sneak up on her (after already having been stabbed a few times) then grabs her, then gets forced off. Okay, so this is 1 scene of about 5-10 that will showcase her improved power, right?
Nope, that's it. One scene. One crappy showcasing scene like that. And that's it. Stupid.
Most of the film should have been is a battleground in the hotel, as everyone slowly starts to become mad.
Kid was kind of annoying throughout.
It's annoying there's an obvious setup for a sequel with the annoying kid. Just get lost Flannagan.
Don't have your plot centered around, and/or later centered around an annoying kid. It's such simple logic and an easy thing to do, yet this film fails at it. Stupid.
Don't disrespect your legacy character, which they do to Danny here. While it isn't distateful disrespect, it's more about ignoring and weakening him, and putting a lot of the films focus on an annoying kid. Ugh. Stupid.
The descent into madness feels rushed. I would have liked a middle ground between this and the mini-series. In this film you have 2 whole hours, and he's already acting erratic and a bit mad within 30 minutes? It's too rushed.
It's not really scary either, though of course the feeling of horror is subjective. In the film it just feels like random strange stuff happening. The mini-series had an actual plot and build up and a rhyme and reason to things going on, and having a strong build up to the characterization.
The thing is, i appreciate the quality of writing more than any other aspect. While i can see the good sense of direction, acting, music and production quality, it's the writing that lets this film down, in various ways, and it's quality of writing i appreciate and scrutinize the most in productions that have it. The mini-series was better in this regard, and why i prefer it over this film.
Slow build up, but there isn't much good "building up" it's more just going on with it's little drama of getting to the hotel and then getting set up with it. It's only after an hour to an hour and a half that things start happening.
Critically, it has interesting characterization and themeing with the drama around alcoholism and family drama. You also have ghost stuff in the hotel and how it affects the characters, and there's some good suspense and creepy moments sometimes.
But personally, i didn't feel invested enough in what was going on. I wasn't compelled, i wasn't immersed enough. I liked the characters enough, but the story and ghost elements and psychic ability felt thin.
The acting is pretty decent to good. Rebecca De Mornay in particular as the loving wife and mother caught my eye a lot, she's a good actress and stunningly beautiful. Plus, those kinds of characters endear me a lot to them.
So while objectively things seem pretty good or decent, you can tell from the ratings that a lot of people felt like i did that we just weren't interested or immersed enough in the overall story and experience. This show is a good indicator about the objectivity and/vs subjectivity of fiction.
It doesn't help that it's a mini-series, dragging things out and having a slow build up.
The jump in quality is extremely surprising. You would think judging from the first episode and the age of the show that the whole show would be generic but fun adventures with little to no complexity or depth, but you'd be wrong. Right here in the second episode, everything is explored deeper, and the whole thing is tightly plotted. It's not completely unsurprising given the writer of the episode, Paul Dini, of batman fame.
I'm just so surprised. I was captivated the whole episode. Most of the characters were explored more, and given more developed personalities and even backstories. What Paul Dini has done here, is partially architect the mythos of the characters for the whole show. I love it, and he's done a really good job in this episode.
Good nostalgic fun. Kept my interest all the way through. The plot is kinda kids generic, but a lot of events actually happen, and the characters are fun to follow. The episode is mostly held up by the excellent music.