The most interesting thing here is the mind-controlling alien itself. It shows a level of either control or technology that hasn't really been done before, and that makes it kind of fascinating.
The hallucinations that everyone has are unfortunately very obvious and unadventurous. Particularly cringeworthy is the stuff with Paris and his father; daddy issues have never felt so dull. Far better is the revelation that B'Elanna kind of wants to get it on with Chakotay, and true to her Klingon heritage she wants him to be forceful about it. Not something I'm particularly eager to see, but it did manage to take me by surprise. Tuvok was a particular let down with his "I ... do not ... understand ... how this is ... possible". Seriously? There's a mind controlling alien giving you hallucinations, Tuvok, it's pretty obvious. You're supposed to be a logical and clever Vulcan, act like one.
Janeway's holodeck fantasy is a fun diversion despite some of the actors involved. For all its silliness, it's managed to create a compelling mystery (WHAT IS ON THE FOURTH FLOOR?!). However, having had cucumber sandwiches myself I can say with certainty that they are never something worth fantasising about.
Kes continues to develop her mental abilities and comes out, again, as the best part of the story.
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@finfan @lefthandedguitarist Spoilers for Jane Eyre, but yeah, based on the tropes they're pulling from, the implication is that his wife had some sort of mental breakdown, and he's keeping her up there while telling the rest of the world that she died. As the Doctor says, very macabre!
Shout by LeftHandedGuitarist
Did anyone else get major Pennywise vibes when they heard, "Hey there, Jackie boy!"?
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@lefthandedguitarist - Abbbbbbsolutely! It was totally an "IT" reference, I think a subtler reference to "The Shining" as well.
I was worried when this started as it looked like was going to be an episode all about Neelix and his jealousy. It turns out that it is, but it's nowhere near as bad as I had feared. Tom and Neelix really needed to work their differences out, and in true cliched TV tradition they get stranded together. It becomes a prime example of how simplistic the writing on this show was, as the two of them bond over a baby and magically resolve all of their differences. You could argue that Trek in general operates like this, but Voyager somehow makes it much harder to stomach. Still, I'm really glad that the Neelix/Paris jealousy story is over.
It's also a shame that the alien baby puppet looks like a reject from that '90s TV show Dinosaurs.
I really appreciated the calmer moments of this one, such as Harry playing clarinet and the Doctor's discussion with Kes. Voyager was not one for really digging into characters, so when the moments occur I tend to enjoy them. I think this also wins the prize for the most insane camera shaking ever during the shuttle's crash landing. That was absolutely nuts.
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@lefthandedguitarist I find it hilarious that five years apart, we both clocked the little puppet creature as something from the Dinosaurs discard pile. God that thing was ugly.
What could have been a thrilling adventure episode ends up as a very dry and ultimately disappointing romp through the stars. There's never any sense of a "race against time" which it seems the episode was going for. It's overly talky too, even by TNG standards. There's a good deal of intrigue in the set up and given that it had been years since I watched this, I couldn't remember where it was going so I was ready for the journey. It unfortunately becomes less and less interesting as it goes on.
Picard greets Professor Galen, supposedly his surrogate father figure, with all the joy and enthusiasm of a brick. As it turns out, Galen is quite an unpleasant fellow who is heavily judgemental of every decision Picard as made and doesn't seem to respect his life's choices, so it's difficult to care about any of what he says. He hints at a mystery that will change the galaxy, though, so of course we want to know what that is.
A minor entanglement with Cardassians, Klingons and Romulans never gets exciting or tense. We have a scene where the Klingon tries to headbutt Data. Hmm. Then we get the big reveal and I have to echo the Klingon's sentiments: "that's it?!". It turns out that the reason so many alien species look like humans - two arms, two legs, a head on top - is not because of the show's limited budget, but actually because we're all born of the same genetic codes randomly distributed throughout the galaxy by an ancient alien race. Okay, thanks.
Good intrigue that manages to keep you along for the ride, but it all fizzles out and feels over-written.
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@lefthandedguitarist I think it is a good episode, but it shouldn't be called 'The Chase'. it gives the wrong impression about what kind of story it is.
Ordinarily I would not particularly like an episode that is nothing but action, but this is visually stunning and has some fantastic cinematography. There's an intelligent flow to the battle, and this is exciting enough to manage without much in the way of characters.
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@lefthandedguitarist cant believe someone would rate a 13-year-old animation as "visually stunning" xD
Shout by LeftHandedGuitarist
Probably the most epic 2-parter that the series has done so far. Maybe it was the move to a new network, but this feels bigger and more ambitious. But my favourite parts are the quieter scenes with Jonas, and SG-1's difficulties in accepting him being there. McKay is enjoyable here too, slightly toned down from before and getting closer to the character we will later know and love.
I also appreciate that the show has always kept the same actor for Rya'c and that we've got to see him grow up as the seasons progress.
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@lefthandedguitarist yeah keeping the actor for Rya'c is really one of the best thing for his character development.
What a great way to end the season. From the moment we saw that maroon movie-era uniform I had a feeling that we were in for something special. This weaved itself in with an alternate take on a classic TOS episode with great skill, as well as throwing in some fun stuff.
I particularly loved the way that they altered the lighting here to match the TOS style, with actor's eyes/faces smoothly lit up in highlights.
Was it a little too on the nose in it's tribute at points? Maybe. But I'm okay with it, and it had enough of a twist on things to make it work. Introducing Kirk this way was a deft, sneaky move and I liked it. And a cliff hanger ending! SNW, you have my attention and my heart.
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@lefthandedguitarist I'm so glad you liked this one, too! What a great episode! An excellent closure to a great first season and an exciting send-off to the second one!
I liked how they addressed the subplot of M'Benga's daughter versus miraculously finding a cure for her and it was clearly a chance for the actors to show some different, sillier sides to themselves. Hard disagree with the low-rated comments -- this episode clearly embodied the spirit of TOS.
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@seryous yes! It was such a surprise and really fun to see the show be "let loose" like this.
Nooo, no, no, this is just my least favourite kind of episode. Confusing and poorly executed, nothing really made sense here and basic storytelling was abandoned in places. Lazarus' beard was the star.
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@lefthandedguitarist LOL, I love that last line.
That was surely one of the Star Trekkiest episodes that ever Star Trekked. I could easily picture this being a TNG story. Hard hitting, tough, highly watchable. Pike's hair continues to impress.
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@lefthandedguitarist I came here to say what you mentioned in your first sentence (although in a far less amusing way). This could have easily passed by as a TNG episode, the only difference being the amount of hair, regarding the captain. Pike's hair is turning into its own character, always there, always watching, maybe one episode it'll decide to take things into its own hands (it will most definitely develop hands, by then).
That was surely one of the Star Trekkiest episodes that ever Star Trekked. I could easily picture this being a TNG story. Hard hitting, tough, highly watchable. Pike's hair continues to impress.
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@lefthandedguitarist LOVING Pike's hair!!!
I came for the Nine Inch Nails songs, I stayed for the fun and fascinating tale.
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@lefthandedguitarist I figured the big twist would be that they found Trent Reznor in a coma
Review by LeftHandedGuitarist
I get emotional every time. Deep Space Nine ends with a beautiful farewell that manages to cover a lot of bases. It wraps up the Dominion War and gives - mostly - satisfying farewells for these characters. This show had by far the characters with the most depth and development in the franchise. There is no room for arguing that fact at all. They felt real. They had faults and they had arcs and evolved throughout the show.
So, it's a real shame that this is the final on-screen appearance for all of them bar Worf. If there was any Trek show that deserved a continuation in film format it was this one. The stories developed here were so rich, and even though this episode wraps things up it still leaves enough open questions and paths for exploration (with one MASSIVE cliffhanger in particular).
This episode itself is strong though certainly not without problems. The pacing is mostly good, but every time we cut to Kai Winn and Dukat on their pah-wraith search it really spoils the momentum. I've now learned (thanks to online forums that didn't exist for me back in the day) that a lot of people were not fans of any of this storyline. I can kind of understand why, even though it never bothered me too much. I really like the mythos that was slowly built up around the Bajoran religion, and certainly when I was younger I couldn't see the way elements became shoehorned in. The pah-wraiths amount to little more than hand-waving magic when you really look at them and they had the effect of turning both Winn and Dukat into pantomime villains.
I don't really accept the way that Winn changed her entire religious beliefs so readily, even though she tries to justify it. I also don't quite understand most of Dukat's motivations after he loses his daughter in season 6. If we are supposed to believe that he's just gone a bit insane then it could have been portrayed better. The whole showdown is over and done with far too quickly and it all gets a bit Star Wars (which I adore, but Star Wars is fantasy-based whereas Star Trek is science fiction/technology based). It doesn't fit. And we get a fast wrap up where Sisko and Dukat just fall into the fire which is... silly, to be polite.
The rest of the episode makes up for this, though. The final battle of the Dominion War is a visual feast and a gripping rollercoaster. The space battle is a tremendous accomplishment for 1990s television standards, but the best part is the Kira/Garak/Damar resistance storyline. Those three characters have such rich histories of conflict to mine that putting them together leads to nothing but joy on screen. The death of Damar does feel like a gut punch even though we've spent so much time hating him for his actions over the course of the past few seasons. It's a shame that his murder of Ziyal is never directly addressed by Kira or Garak. The love-to-hate-him character Weyoun gets a satisfying send off, and the war is ended with a moment of compassion and understanding when Odo offers to give himself up to save everyone.
The individual character bookends are also greatly satisfying, and often bittersweet. Odo leaves, O'Brien leaves, Worf leaves. Odo's decision feel natural even though he leaves hurt people in his wake, but Miles' is much more unexpected and actually the more emotional for me. The O'Brien/Bashir bromance was among my favourite parts of this show, so the video collage of their past moments is heartbreaking for me. Worf's departure is a bit stranger, since we will see him again in Star Trek: Nemesis and it doesn't acknowledge his decisions here at all. Additionally, I will be forever disappointed that there are no flashback to Jadzia due to licensing reasons.
In happier endings, Julian and Ezri are finally together and I like it. It was all a bit forced but I'm just happy at the thought of them together. Nog gets promoted to Lieutenant (take that, Harry Kim), Kira is in charge of the station and Quark gets to keep running the bar while Rom has become Grand Nagus!
That leaves the saddest ending of all: the Siskos. In particular, I think Jake gets the short straw. His dad is gone but just within reach. Benjamin has not only left his son behind, but his pregnant wife. It's a bold ending that leaves you wanting to know more, and extremely bittersweet. Ben and Jake were the heart and soul of this show from the very beginning and I think it's appropriate that it finishes on a shot of Jake thinking about his dad while being comforted.
I said in my review of 'Emissary' that DS9 was my favourite TV show of all time. This rewatch has solidified that statement for me. The characters here are mismatched, broken people who grow and evolve into true friends and take us on that journey with them. It has also really struck me how much DS9 continues to stand up to today's modern TV landscape, while the other Trek shows feel very much liked dated products of their time. Here we have a tale of terrorism, religion, war and through all that a thread of hope and idealism.
I absolutely can't leave it here, and I'm going to be delving into the "relaunch" novels that pick up where the show ended and continue the journey. It's not official canon and could easily be overwritten at any time (especially given the announcement of all the new Trek heading our way on TV), but that doesn't take away from these new stories at all, and given the "black sheep" nature of DS9 in the franchise I have a feeling that these stories are probably the best I can hope for. There's also the upcoming documentary What We Left Behind to look forward to, and maybe one day we'll get a nice HD upgrade for the show.
See you again down the road, DS9.
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@lefthandedguitarist Thanks for your comments throughout this, Guitarist, I enjoyed reading them
This felt more like More WOKE, Virtue Signalling than our Science based Star Trek we've all come to love. Nevertheless, being a Sci-Fi fan, I tried to ignore the Virtue Signalling and relaxed into the episode, which felt it was based on Emotion and trying to make the Audience feel good,.... Then, BOOM, the Woke culture slapped me around the face again when Earths president walked off the shuttle and all I saw was Freaking !!!Stacey Abrams!!! and the whole WOKE Culture was thrown to the forefront of my mind.... Thanks for Ruining what could have been an awesome Star Trek!... I hope Strange New Worlds with Captain PIKE doesn't go down this road.
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@alienmoon Yeah, I'm sick of all this newfound wokeness in Star Trek. For instance, I watched this episode from the 1960s where they had a white person and a black person kiss, and another from the same time period with these half-white half-black aliens where the whole thing is a big metaphor for racism being bad, and I'm like "Geeze, why you gotta throw this in my face?" What happened to the good old fashioned politics free Star Trek?
This felt more like More WOKE, Virtue Signalling than our Science based Star Trek we've all come to love. Nevertheless, being a Sci-Fi fan, I tried to ignore the Virtue Signalling and relaxed into the episode, which felt it was based on Emotion and trying to make the Audience feel good,.... Then, BOOM, the Woke culture slapped me around the face again when Earths president walked off the shuttle and all I saw was Freaking !!!Stacey Abrams!!! and the whole WOKE Culture was thrown to the forefront of my mind.... Thanks for Ruining what could have been an awesome Star Trek!... I hope Strange New Worlds with Captain PIKE doesn't go down this road.
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Damn you trumpers just can’t stop crying about everything.
Stay triggered trumper.
Also, kiss my retired, actual combat veteran rear.
Move to Russia.
Can see they are pushing further inner exploration and growth during these episodes. Not sure why there is so much hate for allowing the trek ethos to grow in this way. Think too many are not willing to move with the times and allow this show to deal with social issues like past trek shows have done in their own way.
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@mad-maru Not to mention there are four previous iterations of Trek with 100s of episodes between them to scratch that vintage itch. Discovery is far from perfect but the endless bitching from people on here about "woke politics" and "too many feelings" are beyond tedious and they should just move on already if it upsets them that much.
Shout by VWFringe the Pervy Sage from TVMuse
I've really gotta stop reading these comments....
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@VWFringe yeah at times it really feels like I'm one of the only people who actually enjoy Discovery. I don't understand why they don't just stop watching.
- Did I accidentally put on Beauty and the Beast?
- I recognised Kristofer Hivju by his voice, but his face looks completely different without a beard and I would not have recognised him without his voice.
- Please give the hair and makeup department more money. I am begging.
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@amberrav Are you saying the boar man looked bad? Because I think he looked incredible!
Wow. This is just terrible. There's no other word for it other than that.
Firstly, the casting is just plain awful. Diversity for the sake of diversity takes its toll yet again, with people being cast into roles with the wrong ethnicity for that particular part. This is even more insulting considering the fact that the world all of this takes place in, already has tons of diversity in it to begin with. Don't shove it in where it doesn't belong!
Storywise... ooh boy. So much has been changed. And look, I get that book adaptations need certain elements changed in order to better fit a visual medium. And some changes they made, are fine. But let me just list some things that are completely wrong:
The whole concept of the Dragon. The show opens with a very brief description of who the Dragon is. The Dragon is the reincarnation of a male Aes Sedai who broke the world in ages past. Concise, but true. Good enough. But then they go on and say that this reincarnation could be either male or female? That makes no sense at all! The Dragon has to be male, because he's the reincarnation of a male Aes Sedai, and he will break the world a second time, just like he did before.
Finding the Dragon. Nobody knows who the Dragon Reborn is. People find out because he starts fulfilling the prophecies written about him just by being born in a certain place and on a certain time. That's how Moiraine narrows it down to the Two Rivers, by finding out about some young people there that fit those criteria. In this adaptation, all Aes Sedai have some sort of spidey sense that can pinpoint the Dragon. Lazy writing at its best.
The world itself. It should be winter, due to the Dark One's grasp increasing on the world. This is a big plot point, which causes visible distress with pretty much everyone, affecting their doings and thoughts, and in this adaptation they just dumb it down to "something drove the wolves down the mountain". It's spring in this version, and birds can be heard in pretty much every scene.
Characters not acting the way they should. Nynaeve is much too serene, Moiraine isn't serene enough, Egwene is much too mature, Perrin is much too jokey, Mat isn't jokey enough and much too responsible, and so on.
Characters' backstories changed to completely change their personality even further. Mat suddenly has abusive parents. Perrin, who is consistently described in the books as a shy, awkward, careful, peaceloving guy, not only has a girlfriend in this adaptation (his finding his first love in Faile Bashere later on is also a huge plot point that they dismissed by doing this), but he murders her in a fit of blind rage. Nynaeve is suddenly a "lost child", just so they could add her to the possible list of nonsensical Dragon candidates. Because suddenly the Aes Sedai spidey sense doesn't work anymore. Rand and Egwene having a full on sexual relationship while they're supposed to be a coming-of-age story that never works out for them.
Forced edginess. Nudity and sex scenes, while sparse, are shoved in your face so forcefully that you can just tell one of the producers saw Game of Thrones and told the script writers to shove "some of that" in there.
There is a LOT more wrong with this cesspool of an adaptation in terms of story, but those are some of the big ones. Also just overall bad acting and bad CGI. The CGI looks like a videogame from the mid 2010's.
I really wanted to like this, but no amount of goodwill can save this absolute mess of a show.
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@treiden Did we watch the same pilot? Let's see. Bear in mind I'm not going to argue with you about your clueless commentary on diversity in this particular comment, because I've sufficient to say about that elsewhere, and I don't need drama from someone like you. But the rest?
Mat's mother was an abusive parent, at least when drunk, in this adaptation - but there's no indication his father was one here. Cheating on his wife doesn't make him an abusive parent - just a lousy husband.
Perrin didn't "murder [his girlfriend] in a fit of blind rage"; he was in the midst of defending himself from a Trolloc, someone grabbed him from behind, and he swung his weapon, being so deep into that self-defence that he obviously thought her another attacker, and couldn't pull his blow in time. That wouldn't be considered murder in any reasonable court of law; it was clearly an accident.
As for the last, having played video games myself for decades, there's nothing particularly bad about the CGI here, either. I can't imagine what you're comparing it to, to make such a broad claim about its quality.
Such a good message in this episode. If only more of the masses could watch it and understand its tangents.
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@cmonster my sentiments exactly -- have been since the original series...it's prolly just the dopamine talking, but it just always seemed important -- worthy goals....
Otis is seriously pissing me off this season. Back in season 1 he was, for the most part, "compellingly odd" as Maeve once said. This season, however, he's been doing nothing but antagonizing everyone around him from his mother to Jakob to Ola to Maeve and it's annoying as hell. The speech he made in this episode was just a bunch of self-righteous bullshit. I've been shipping him with Maeve from the start, but tbh now I think Maeve deserves better than this entitled little shit.
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@aniela-krajewska I get where you’re coming from and I agree he was being hugely annoying this episode (then again most people are when they get shitfaced in an emotional state). However, it’s also Otis who has been antagonised all through this season. He just boiled over this episode. I think he also had a right to express his feelings at the dinner table, when no one else dared. Hey not even his mother could honestly talk about hers. I actually agreed with Otis there.
You’re also forgetting how he’s always trying to help everyone even when he doesn’t really want to. He always puts others first. And then this mess comes out of it, where he feels like he’s just the one getting trampled on. I totally can’t be mad at that.
As long as Otis catches himself again, it‘a just an outbreak.
Arg, again with pansexuality. SHE'S BISEXUAL! Jesus!
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@superverde how do you know? Have you checked in with her? :thinking:
Shout by Fiodeste
I was very nervous to watch this last episode because I feared they would force Otis and Maeve together the last minute. I'm glad they didn't.
I just hope they don't ruin it next season and make some silly excuses for them to break up with their current partners so they can end up together. They have a good thing going with the relationships they've been building during this whole season and, even though they might like each other, doesn't mean they are right for each other yet.loading replies
@fiodeste yes, they've been developing (or trying to) the relationship between Otis and Ola for some time, that's not my point. What I said was that there's no chemistry between them. Maybe after 20 episodes there'll be a spark, but right now, it's just weird seeing them together. And I disagree with the last part of your comment, they were clearly preparing things for Otis and Maeve to be together by the end of the episode, everything was flowing smoothly in that matter, but then they stick him with Ola because more seasons. I'm cool with more seasons, I'm not cool with a couple with no chemistry between them just because they don't want Otis and Maeve together (for now). Also, no chemistry. Did I mention no chemistry? :D
What the hell does "This place is deader than a Texas salad bar" even mean? :joy: Please try to make sense, Mr. Shaft.
Almost a season ago (https://trakt.tv/comments/388513) I was pretty annoyed that Vala had stuck around. At the time, her character felt shallow—and static. Since then, I'm quite pleasantly surprised that the writers turned her around into someone capable of growing and changing, someone with a conscience and a sense of the greater good. So what if her jokes still aren't funny? :grin:
Meanwhile, I still haven't figured out exactly why the creative team puts her in twintails most of the time. Best I can think of is that it's to emphasize Vala's playful, often childish attitude—which works, but doesn't mesh quite as well as the flippancy they were probably trying to replace since O'Neill/RDA left the cast.
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@dgw Really, you didn't get the comment about the salad bar in a state known for its meat? I seriously hope that was sarcasm.
Well, Commodore Decker was a bit of a maniac, wasn't he?
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@lefthandedguitarist It's funny, but from the verbal description, I had in mind pretty much what was later displayed for the doomsday ship. It is so iconic and duplicated that it is almost the default design for a device like that.
Shout by LeftHandedGuitarist
I fell asleep. I think it turns out that the dog did it. You're welcome, I just saved you from having to watch this one.
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@lefthandedguitarist - LOL, read this too late. I ended up watching it in two installments and yup, this one is exceedingly boring.
An episode that consists of all set-up for the next part means that it feels like nothing really happens here. On the other hand, it's not the worst thing to just spend time with these characters we've gotten to know so well. The main focus here is on Worf and Data, the latter of whom has the most interesting story. His attempts to start dreaming unlock some lovely moments and some creatively shot sequences - I really loved the bird's POV shot that swoops outside of the Enterprise. Brent Spiner again plays Dr. Noonien Soong, this time without a load of prosthetics and does a really nice job of it.
Worf's story is a intriguing start that doesn't get paid off too well in this first part. Going to Deep Space Nine is a nice treat (and seeing it in HD on the blu-ray is lovely) and Worf's inner struggle is fairly compelling.
So, despite all the quite lovely things that happen in this episode it just feels like it's a whole lot of people sitting around and thinking. There's no real excitement, despite a wonderful guest appearance from an unrecognisable James Cromwell and even Dr. Bashir showing up.
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@lefthandedguitarist I quite liked the Data story as its own thing here and would've been happy for that to get left for quite some time as kind of an active mystery.
Just when you thought CBS couldn't make any worse Trek, they vomit out this garbage. Not a funny thing in it and the animation is appalling. Roddenberry must be spinning in his grave at warp 9.
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@taomyn I don't think he would. Behind the goofiness they do touch on similar subjects that TOS and TNG did. You might not like the humor, and that's your right, but the themes are very much Star Trek-y. And they call out Starfleet on a lot of their bullshit, especially in the second half, and that was refreshing.
Shout by Scorpia
VIP2
- Adam's back, I guess?
- ..wat... "He-Ro" ? ...llllooollll
- oh god, the flying saucer pads
- aaand there is Greyskull.. The myth, the legend?
magic + tech = big bada boom?
oh ffs communicate people!
moss man back, still dead though.
sword fixed
oh, boom
dammit, stop killing characters!
Evil-Lynn was always my favorite, but now? Hot damn!
will he or won't he?
sailor moon transformation!
all's well that ends well?
oh .... Shit. Well.. Okay.. That just happened..
oh.. Oh no... Oh nooooo holy fucking shit lmao nice cliffhanger I guess
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@entrapta He-Ro is straight out of the 80s, invented in 1987 and He-Mans ancestor. There's a lot there that's amazing nods to some of the planned storylines.
Jonathan Majors , love the dude, but that performance was godawful. He kinda reminded me of Jesse Eisenberg in Batman V Superman
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@jordyep I can see why some people would think he was way over the top but that's how the character was written. You can't deliver ridiculous lines like that subtlety.
