I agree. I do not agree how they handled the ralph situation. He can change his shape so at least replace the actor. Getting fired for something that was said in the past is for me unfair. If he exhibited those in the present then it would have been more understandable
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@ashuran It’s CW, the woke network. What did you except. But agree with you that if he’s still like than sure fire him but something that was said 9 years a go makes the CW & all the actors on this show no different than Hartley.
Shout by Jim222001
VIP6Ralph was in the previous episode and was written out to have never existed now I guess. I meanwhile miss Caitlin and Cisco. I can care less about Iris coming back from mirror world.
The show will suck if Tom Cavanagh left as well. As it was this wasn’t a memorable premiere. Without Cisco and Caitlin.loading replies
@lawb68 Yeah I know. It’s like they wanted to make a point that words matter. So they looked through old tweets looking for someone they could fire.
Gustin acting all goody goody about it like he never makes mistakes. Is a reason I can barely stomach the show now.
Shout by Jim222001
VIP6Ralph was in the previous episode and was written out to have never existed now I guess. I meanwhile miss Caitlin and Cisco. I can care less about Iris coming back from mirror world.
The show will suck if Tom Cavanagh left as well. As it was this wasn’t a memorable premiere. Without Cisco and Caitlin.loading replies
@jim222001 He made some comments years ago that don't fly with the current climate of politics. Cancel culture got him. And even GG (Barry) said some crap about it. Hope it gets the show because it's gone so downhill and it sucks now. Most of the cast is not on now I am hearing. WTH? Also CP is a Jussie Smollett friend. That tells me all I need to know about this SJW show.
Ugh, I wanna like this show so bad, but again these stories are all so god damn dull. So, the uncle killed his brother, because he was trying to escape ... the uncle's mind control plan ... and then kept his niece hostage to collect more of the debris ... all so he could fulfill his Grand Master Plan of ... killing a bunch of random Army generals ... That's why he destroyed his family ? it's all just so shallow.
On top of that there's just a million questions left unanswered, and not in a good way, where it's up to the audience to decide ... Nope just: "Wait, what, I'm lost. Why did that just happen ?".
Like: Why was the debris only attracted to the girl ? Why not just scrape the bottom of the lake ? Why did it not affect her ? Why did the one brother try to run away with the debris, and how did the other one find him, then control him to commit suicide from so far away ? Is this debris supposed to have unlimited range ? What made people remember what they had been controller about ? I'll admit I might have missed this part, but what exactly was the issue with the debris ? Did it "spoil" after being used, or did he just need more to be more powerful ? edit: I just remembered this one, but ... didn't the niece just straight up murder her uncle then ? She couldn't, you know, force him to surrender ? No, no. Better to force him to slam his head against a shard of metal
Also, I feel like one of the biggest missed opportunities are the lack of reoccurring powers: every episode we're introduced to a new piece of Debris, and 45 minutes later the thing is whisked away and shelved, never to be seen again. Could the agents not be using all this fancy new tech to become more bad-ass super-agents ?
This whole show has just become:
"Hi, I'm Bryan ..." gives a broody look, off into the distance
"I'm Finola ..." poses with piercing eyes, and pursed lips
"and we're ... the Metal Detectorists !"
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@alexnader you raise a lot of valid questions but I am enjoying the show regardless.
Re: the shallowness of the stories, I suppose to some extent what you've got going on with the debris-of-the-week stories is the investigation of the exposure of random individuals to bits of debris and how it effects or corrupts them. This obviously makes their stories more small scale because it's happened due to (bad) luck rather than some proverbial master plan. The deeper story is obviously the two competing intelligence agencies and Finola's back-from-the-dead father.
I definitely agree about the lack of recurring powers. These pieces ought to be used in subsequent episodes otherwise it makes each piece of debris discovered kind of irrelevant, reducing it to mere alien junk.
OK, now I am lost a bit. On the one side we learn what happened and why. And that she in fact didn't steal Visions body but re-created him. I get that. But why did it MAKE her The Scarlett Witch ? Wasn't she always ?
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@finfan in comics, since the recent retcon of 2015/2016, the Scarlet Witch is a title, there was Scarlet Witches before Wanda. In the MCU, she had no superhero name before today.In the comics, her mother was Scarlet Witch before her, and there was many Scarlet Witches before that. And Scarlet Witch is not a mutant in the comics and Magneto is not her father. All that since the retcon of 2015/2016.
What an absolutely botched ending to an otherwise strong show. Spoilers: Monica and Darcy are completely tossed aside, Evan Peters is entirely wasted as Quicksilver in favor of a dick joke, the writers show zero creativity in leaving characters to die and Wanda has ultimately learned nothing about her magic, ending the show exactly where she stood 8 years ago before 'Age of Ultron'. What a complete mess devoid of consequences, leaving characters storylines wide open for projects years away instead of tying character arcs up. Wanda apologises to the town members after tortuing them for weeks and we're supposed to feel bad when her fake children are erased? No, sorry, you're responsible for that. Monica really told Wanda the town should be grateful.... after she released them from their torture slavery. Wanda belongs on the Raft, Avengers need bodycams after this abuse. This is exactly what the Sokovia Accords were for. This isn't a show, it's a promotional ad to go see the next Marvel thing. I thought they were doing something special when the show began, embracing the wierd and unexplained magic in the MCU, but by the end the Marvel formula is intact and the story falls into laziness.
Who the hell was the missing person Jimmy Woo had in witness protection to begin with?
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@erebos Those two roles are no where near comparable as the intentions are totally different. And yes, that's why I mentioned that the townspeople are justified in rejecting her. It doesn't make it any more tragic for literally everyone involved.
What an absolutely botched ending to an otherwise strong show. Spoilers: Monica and Darcy are completely tossed aside, Evan Peters is entirely wasted as Quicksilver in favor of a dick joke, the writers show zero creativity in leaving characters to die and Wanda has ultimately learned nothing about her magic, ending the show exactly where she stood 8 years ago before 'Age of Ultron'. What a complete mess devoid of consequences, leaving characters storylines wide open for projects years away instead of tying character arcs up. Wanda apologises to the town members after tortuing them for weeks and we're supposed to feel bad when her fake children are erased? No, sorry, you're responsible for that. Monica really told Wanda the town should be grateful.... after she released them from their torture slavery. Wanda belongs on the Raft, Avengers need bodycams after this abuse. This is exactly what the Sokovia Accords were for. This isn't a show, it's a promotional ad to go see the next Marvel thing. I thought they were doing something special when the show began, embracing the wierd and unexplained magic in the MCU, but by the end the Marvel formula is intact and the story falls into laziness.
Who the hell was the missing person Jimmy Woo had in witness protection to begin with?
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@fbwf I thought there were wasted opportunities, yes, but I cried my eyes out at the ending. I'm really not sure why it isn't evident why she's not a bad person - yes, she caused the problem. Yes, she is at fault and is responsible. Yes, she should have apologized, and yes, she should probably be held accountable. That being said, what she did to the townspeople was not permanent. The worst she did physically was choke everyone by accident. She's mentally ill, vulnerable, and grieving the loss of the only person in her life who could truly provide her comfort. All she wanted was a normal life - she didn't actually mean to hurt anyone and she's horrified when she realizes that her actions are hurting the townsfolk. This is explicitly established when she denies their cries and argues that she is taking care of them and that they are happy under her protection. It's a major step on boundaries and human rights for her to pull her stunt, but she's also in need of love and therapy, not more human rejection. While it's understandable that the humans would be upset - and in fact, they should be - I still don't think that makes her RAFT worthy. She fixed her mistakes once she made them, even though they hurt her a lot.
What an absolutely botched ending to an otherwise strong show. Spoilers: Monica and Darcy are completely tossed aside, Evan Peters is entirely wasted as Quicksilver in favor of a dick joke, the writers show zero creativity in leaving characters to die and Wanda has ultimately learned nothing about her magic, ending the show exactly where she stood 8 years ago before 'Age of Ultron'. What a complete mess devoid of consequences, leaving characters storylines wide open for projects years away instead of tying character arcs up. Wanda apologises to the town members after tortuing them for weeks and we're supposed to feel bad when her fake children are erased? No, sorry, you're responsible for that. Monica really told Wanda the town should be grateful.... after she released them from their torture slavery. Wanda belongs on the Raft, Avengers need bodycams after this abuse. This is exactly what the Sokovia Accords were for. This isn't a show, it's a promotional ad to go see the next Marvel thing. I thought they were doing something special when the show began, embracing the wierd and unexplained magic in the MCU, but by the end the Marvel formula is intact and the story falls into laziness.
Who the hell was the missing person Jimmy Woo had in witness protection to begin with?
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@funger92 I mean...they felt her pain and her grief. They knew she was sorry. You could see it on her face and they were right there. Would you be able to face a town of angry people after you lost your husband and imagined children that you convinced yourself were real?
My God… that episode was AMAZING! There’s so much stuff to talk about. First, we now know that Wanda is in (at least 90%) control of everything that happens inside Westview and that Agnes also knows what Wanda is doing and she is (for some unknown reason) just going along with it. Does she have an ulterior motive or is she providing the means necessary to help Wanda? Vision just found out what is happening and he’s both terrified and worried, the woman he loves is controlling and hurting other people to fill her own selfish needs. That’s gonna blow up in her face… eventually. I’m pretty sure there’s a logical –in universe– explanation for the Pietro “recast” and the episode’s full with loads of proof:
- A brother that lives “far away” (not dead and in another Universe).
- “Family is forever”.
- She is not “creating” new people or new stuff. Maybe it's the soul shreds thing from the comics?
You didn't see that coming?
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@chuchitzu Do we actually KNOW that Wanda is the one in charge? It's INSINUATED, yes - but why believe that? Why can't it be Agnes in charge and Wanda just accepting it? Considering Agnes is always there and never in any way shocked/scared/surprised about anything that happens, she definitely is more than she seems. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Agnes is Mephisto.
Spoiler Warning: Agnes: do you want to take it from the top ? Wanda looked nervous that Agnes knows what is going on. Great scene.
Plus Agnes probably killed the dog. I think Agnes is who Vision’s co-worker is afraid of, not Wanda.
Awesome 80’s like opening credits as well. Such an awesome episode. Quicksilver from the Fox X-Men movies. So weird.loading replies
@jim222001 Learn how to use spoiler tags.
This episode's sitcom parody was maybe the most accurate yet (except that they just gave up and shot it in widescreen) but whenever it cuts back to the "real world" the show just loses all steam for me. I love Randall Park and Kat Dennings in those roles, but those scenes are filled with such clunky, expository dialogue they're just not enjoyable. I didn't understand why people were so excited about that ending at all because I didn't recognize that guy. Maybe I'm crazy, but I kinda feel like you shouldn't have to google actors' past work to understand plot points of a TV show!
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@notmikefrollo Tbh that's always been Marvel's thing though. Way back in the early 60s, they started connecting their comic books in a way so you'd only get the FULL picture of the universe if you read ALL of them. If you ONLY read Spider-Man, you'll miss a lot of Spider-Man plot threads and storylines based on his guest appearances in all the other comics, for example.
This episode's sitcom parody was maybe the most accurate yet (except that they just gave up and shot it in widescreen) but whenever it cuts back to the "real world" the show just loses all steam for me. I love Randall Park and Kat Dennings in those roles, but those scenes are filled with such clunky, expository dialogue they're just not enjoyable. I didn't understand why people were so excited about that ending at all because I didn't recognize that guy. Maybe I'm crazy, but I kinda feel like you shouldn't have to google actors' past work to understand plot points of a TV show!
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@notmikefrollo As with EVERY Marvel TV-show and movie, they get better when you understand the references and hints. Why is this a problem now, and not 15 years ago when they started doing it?
Also, what part of the plot didn't you understand. Her brother is back, but it's not the brother she, or anyone else, knows. That's the plot point. The fact that the X-Men movie fans knows his backstory is at this point not relevant to the TV-shows plot at all.
Wow, one of the most mundane deaths of a main character I can remember; RIP Alex. (And, yes, I know why)
Also, seemed like some storyline gaps from the last episode, like Amos & crews arrival on Luna; no screening process for new arrivals, since "Peaches" apparently got off the shuttle with no issue? She is technically an escaped high risk prisoner, no?
Last nitpick: thank God Naomi is off that ship, it was all I could do to not FF through her ultra-whinning scenes, that whole concept seemed out of character to me.
That being said, good stuff :clap:, and I'll be waiting anxiously for season 6.loading replies
@bowtieguy Most people on that shuttle would have been arrested following a simple ID check if Chrisjen hadn't most likely intervened. It's just not something interesting enough to spend screen time on but someone could have said something about it in passing like when Erich talks about Hutch.
This actually is an overall decent finale. The tense in Camina's fleet is good. The Rocinante battle is good. Naomi's rescue is good. The reveal on the end was also good. However there's one reason that makes the episode feels like a jumble of choppily edited scenes: everything involving Alex's death.
I don't take issue with it being sudden and abrupt, as many deaths are. But everyone feels really disconnected from that one incident that should have affected at least all the main casts. Alex just died, but Holden and Naomi spent their time to listen to Naomi's supposed farewell (and spent minutes on it). Amos was more eager to bring Peaches instead of mourning his close friend; even worse he was only informed about Alex's death off screen. For a fellow Martian and somebody who has spent quite a time with Alex, Bobbie seems largely unaffected at all. And Alex, well... The only tribute they gave to this incident is a plaque, which makes for some emotional moment, but that's it. Heck, that part where Holden talked to Naomi to rekindle the events almost feels like Holden breaking the fourth wall to explain to viewers due to how abrupt it is handled.
It almost feels like the event is not supposed to happen, and the showrunners edited in last minutes.
This season has been nothing but a Naomi season that leads to a reunion of Rocinante crew. That incident stuck like a sore thumb, making the supposedly joyful event with all crews gathering feels really emotionally detached. Not to mention that, barring the reveal at the end, most events still happen off screen. Just like most things that happened this season. We don't get to see the impact of something big happening.
So despite being an overall decent episode, this finale closes the relatively most mediocre season The Expanse has produced. I'd even say that the quality is even lower than Season 4. The first four episodes were nice, but it went downhill and stagnated really fast.
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@xaliber "Holden and Naomi spent their time to listen to Naomi's supposed farewell (and spent minutes on it)"
All that Naomi said there can be applied to Alex's death. I thought it was beautiful because of that and now I realize a lot of people missed it.
"It almost feels like the event is not supposed to happen, and the showrunners edited in last minutes."
Well, yes, because he was fired after they had already shot most of the season.
https://www.newsweek.com/expanse-season-5-episode-10-alex-death-cas-anvar-1566400
The episode was OK. Probably the weakest this season though. It feels like they could have trimmed a lot of this run time, especially with the show only having ~13 episodes left before the end. I am still confused about the overall progression and meaning of Naomi's conversations with Phillip.... Can someone possibly steer me in the right direction? his sudden change of heart at the end threw me off.... was he playing Naomi the entire time, or was Marco's control over him too firm, making him want to make up for disappointing him?
The ending did make it worth it though, PURE BADASSERY.
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@mattdeezly1996 He caved to his father's abusive seduction. The speech and chanting were yet another dose of brainwashing through the breakdown and rebuilding of a dependant confidence.
2021-01-01T00:00:00Z2021-12-31T23:59:59Z