I think what a lot of folks who don't know the franchise are missing isn't that we want the show to be a mirror of the game.
Bungie built a MASSIVE universe that Halo can live within, and told a far reaching story of a galactic war that was told amongst the original trilogy following the Master Chief, a prequel with a previously unknown "Noble Team", a spin off based on ODST troopers, not spartans, and several other tactical games. And we had other live action shows-- some better than others-- and animated movies. And books.
The lore as absurdly huge and it's been proven for nearly 2 decades now that there's MORE than enough room to tell your own story in the (grand) confines of the sandbox that was created.
Throwing all of that away and assuming you can make a better derivative story than countless legions of other creators, archivists, authors, directors? That's the upsetting part. Hell, we didn't even need the story to revolve around John-117 and have him pop up as a 2 minute late season cameo and we would've freaked out.
This story is lazy, and has discarded years of lore which could've been expanded upon (never before told! never seen on screen!) and they chose not to.
Imagine a Star Wars spinoff live action where the creator decided "Yup, I can tell a better story" and adapts the entire universe from the perspective of a lone Jedi who roams the countryside with his trusty blaster in search of the mystical lightsaber, but is thwarted at multiple turns by his father, who feels guilty over abandoning his son at birth. It doesn't. Work.
Same reason the DC movies were trash. Same reason the MCU has been on a decline. Fans demand continuity when a universe has been established. This universe has been in place for 2 decades and actively developed.
This show does not honor that in the least, and is a terrible representation of it. If this had any other name than Halo, it would still be a middling Scifi as well.
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@buzzedword s2 was horrible. No even from a lore standpoint but from a writing, CGI and many other flaws. Like, Big battle just make a few pews pews and fill it entirely with fog. What the hell? I though we were past that. The writing is just unbereable tbh, the characters are full of contradictions.What a mess.
Omg I am so disappointed.
I had high expectations.
He took his helmet off WTF!!!!!
Where are the grunts?? I only sa elites.
It’s notebable that the dint researched the original ip.Again Hollywood took an ip and did there own cheap thing with it. To get maximum money out of it. With less effort. generic story writing. Human on human
Baby sitting a human girl. Do I need to go on?Only plus point is the look of the Spartans
Action it self is good.Everything else is bad generic cheap writhing.
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@mediacenterkodi You missed the point of the original post. Psykoen made multiple points about what made the original story good then showed how the production company took the cheap and easy paths when making this TV show instead of putting effort into making a good product.
The helmet: We know that the Master Chief's name is simply "John" and he never removes his helmet. This helps the viewer put themselves more into the protagonist role. See Banshee for another good example of a nameless protagonist that is written really well. We don't need to know about John to be able to focus on the greater story about galaxy-wide war. The production studio decided to remove John's helmet so that they could print promotional material about how you'll more more about Master Chief; completely misunderstanding the point of John being faceless. It's also an attempt to tie him to the bland cast so they can create shallow drama.
The grunts: The Covenant is a terrifying force in part because you realize that it is made up of multiple species that came together for a single cause. Facing that force is daunting and a great source of tension. The decision to not show the other species was a decision in two parts: 1) It is cheaper to pay a human in a costume that has the same dimensions as an average human than it is to pay for computer effects that would be required to render the other species that can't be filmed by humans in costumes. 2) The studio most likely asked themselves, "What's the coolest species? We'll focus on them. The Elites have those bad-ass laser swords." This is an incredibly shallow decision and makes the audience feel manipulated. It's the same level as hiring only incredibly attractive people for the human cast.
Baby sitting: Script writers who have been told to shoe-horn human drama into a story that lacks a consistent human character base rely on easily recognizable and lazy tropes. For a good example watch any U.S. produced Godzilla or natural disaster film. There will be scenes focusing on a single family as we watch them try to survive as if the audience should be cheering for the survival of these handful of people while thousands or millions die around them. Cookie-cutter characters are created specifically so the audience can follow them and drama can be written around them. It's lazy and boring.
There are many good reasons why Psykoen wrote that the show is "generic cheap writing". Although not able to verbalize it to your satisfaction, his points are still strong. This does not make him a child; it makes him an average viewer tired of the trash and being treated like a child by cynical studios looking for an easy cash-grab.
Oh look another show that has its natural flow interrupted by the same ol' industry standards plaguing everything else in the last few years. Hire hack writers who don't care about the source, hire every checkbox in the book, and then blame it on the fans for not liking it. Next.
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Sensed that in the beginning of the second season itself. I lost my interest after three episodes.
Oh look another show that has its natural flow interrupted by the same ol' industry standards plaguing everything else in the last few years. Hire hack writers who don't care about the source, hire every checkbox in the book, and then blame it on the fans for not liking it. Next.
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@kryptwalker yep. Slowly they are gonna destroy everything amazing. They take a great thing, they turn it into disaster, and then they are upset when it fails. Like they put so much effort into ruining it and then they cry about losing money. Cater to fans or end up in the trash.
This feels much more like mid season episode. That's not saying it was a bad one. Quite the opposite. I had a lot of good laughs and a lot of smiles.
One small point of critique: the whole Lysella story was too predictable. I love the dialogue between her and Kelly. It's obvious where that's aimed at. But why not show her the simulation earlier ? Could've made her understand and accept without all the back and forth.
As for the Clair/Issac relationship - who would've thought it would end in marriage when that started way back. But it works, it makes sense and it doesn't feel forced.
Final thoughts on the season:
"Future Unknown" refers as much to the episode as to the show itself. There still is no news about a renewal. It would be a loss to not have another season. I'm sure they could come up with interesting stories. Ed's daughter, his relationship to Kelly, how Claire and Isaac work out, Lysella - there is tons of potential. But they also made sure we get closure if it ends here. I would miss the characters as they have grown on me. I want to see them again and learn more about them. Experience some more adventures with them. That's a feeling no show has given me for quite some time.
Please come back.
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@finfan I finished watching this series again. I forgot about Lysella staying, I don't know why.
You care about the characters so it's a nice episode where you feel you are spending time with your friends, having good laughs.
Almost a year passed since this episode aired and no news about season 4 yet. The most important story left behind is the daughter of Ed and Teleya. I hope to see her reunited with her father soon.
It's drifting into ridicule again.
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@finfan Yeah, this was a pretty rough episode.
@finfan There's no guarantee that all operatives are clones. Ventress is confirmed in the trailers, and book readers have pointed out that the timeline of these episodes almost overlaps the timeline of Ventress dying and being resurrected (new canon). What if the operative program is how that happens?
Additionally, that ship this operative is using just screams lone Sith Apprentice.
I will be surprised if it is not Ventress. I will be VERY surprised if it's Tech. It would cheapen his sacrifice too much, it doesn't feel like something Filoni would do. But, like you said, we'll see.
This show should’ve ended two seasons ago, it was good when they appeared in Clone Wars, the “m-count” is ridiculous, they don’t even date to mention the complete name, and a clone having that?… please
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@troop3r85 I mean, paying attention has never been the strong suit of people ready to dismiss something before they've even watched it. Omega's sample didn't have an m-count, just her genes would facilitate an m-count transfer
I'm surprised to find that I don't believe this movie holds up to modern audiences. It has some good cinematography and is good for its time, but not that watchable today. Only Kubrick fans who want to be educated on his early work should watch this. Kubricks previous movie, Paths of Glory, is a much easier recommendation and a much more reasonable length as well.
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@finfan Of course you would watch it if you were studying Kubrick, good or bad or it's his work. You might not enjoy it very much (I didn't) but it's still a part of his canon.
Are lighting guys in short supply or something? I can't see shit this episode. :person_shrugging:
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@finfan Wouldn't surprise me if that was their reasoning. I already don't like the show, but it might help if I was able to see what was going on.
Lowered my rating as I was so bored on S2E1 I turned it off.
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@finfan you're a braver man than me
Wait a minute: this was produced well before the final season of Clone Wars. So it was already established that Rex removed his inhibitor chip and others did as well ? And he was talking about the siege of Mandalore as well. Then I must say I'm glad I'm only watching this now because it would have lessens the impact a bit had I known that.
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@finfan agreed - it's nice to get to watch it in chronological order :)
Funny how now the Empire Remnant has a secret underground resistance against the New Republic. How the tables have turned.
This episode was way better in terms of storytelling but it left me very frustrated. I know that the Mandalorians are not likely to win if they want to keep the mythology. But just for once I'd like to see them come out on top. Gideon has become a bit ridicolous. He's the archetype of a bad guy. He was more interesting when he wasn't flying around as a Vader look-alike. I hate to see Vizla die but I should've seen that one coming because I really grew to like him. Grogu inside IG ? Come-on, he's a Force user. Despite the fact he choose not to train with Luke he still has the ability, no ? And we still must have a monster, doesn't we ?
Now, those are personal and, yes, biased points on my behalf. Like I said it was a great episode as such. In the end I see it as a win for the author if he invokes those reactions from me. There were also moments that gave me serious goosebumps. Like when Bo told them what happened between her and Gideon and subsequent how Din told her why he's following her. The talk about Thrawn didn't surprise me. I expected that pretty much from episode one forward.
Only one episode left and I hope there'll be some silver lining.
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Funny how now the Empire Remnant has a secret underground resistance against the New Republic. How the tables have turned.
The Rebel Alliance to Restore the Empire?
All those Oscars for what exactly ? OK, the style and filming is good, looks more real with the shaky camera. Acting is OK but I don´t think it warrants a nomination for an Oscar. But the biggest issue - where is the story? This is just a chain of short stories whos only connection seems to be the general location and some of the players. You learn very little about the characters and their motivations. Character developement ? Nope. Therefore I found it impossible to relate to or feel anything for them. In fact I was mentally out of this after an hour.
And the number of errors in this movie is extreme (check IMDB) which could have been excused because a lot of war-movies have them. But with all the flaws in the story the pile becomes just higher.And something else entirely: I wish we had ratings by demographic. Look at IMDB you see the rating drops with age.
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@finfan I came here to figure out why everyone rated this movie so highly but turns out normal people seem to agree it was meh.
Yes writing is not great but I think a lot of y’all are forgetting about the wga strike going on soooo yeahhhh. Still a show I will stick with and watch as it has Star Wars action and that’s all I care about tbh.
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@xlak WGA Strike started May this year. Principal photography wrapped in October last year. The strike has no bearing on this shows writing quality.
Okay, people, we get it. A lot of internet trolls hate Disney because they show the world like it is - people with different skin colors, sexual orientations and lifestyles. And they even hate it when their sci-fi universes aren't populated by all-white casts.
You know what? Get over it and don't bother her Est of us with your hate, intolerance and bitterness, okay? Thank you.
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@leipzigeralex I don't hate disney... But I do have the capacity to know when I'm being entertained !
Wow, what terrible acting and storylines. It's like they throw darts at the episode plot board and just riff on what they hit.
With every Star Wars spinoff Disney demonstrates their acceptance of mediocrity in entertainment. Each spin off uses the leftovers from the previous shows as set pieces and everything is just lower and lower production value with more talentless actors and bad writing.
Mando set a gold standard in the first two seasons, Fett was OK but felt forced, Obi Wan didn't really land and Ewan couldn't resurrect it, Andor was slow and recycled too many previous Star Wars sets and now Ashoka is just a sad attempt at another spinoff, of which there seem to be a limitless supply of. With Ashoka it seems like they are trying to break the "one season special" formula and make it a slow burn to run for multiple seasons.
Disney is grasping at anything to keep their failing streaming service (and frankly, their failing corporation) alive.
As I write this I realize how much Star Wars has been spun off, especially if you include Solo and Rogue One. Disney got their hands on the franchise and turned it into a giant cash grab which worked for a minute but is watering down a beloved franchise more and more with each spin off.
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@tvwatcherdenver I agree fully, except that Andor was great!
Mediocre show, Rosario is awful as Ahsoka and Winstead doesn't fit Hera Syndulla at all. Story is very predictable unfortunately.. I was so looking forward to this, dissapointed.
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@essenslug why not? Of course people can. Not everything needs a deep analysis and I'm actually tired of the "you have to stick with it, it's getting better after episode xx/season whatnot/you can't have an opinion after 1-2-3 episodes"
I always found those kind of arguments pretty stupid.
Review by FinFan
I am really rather tired of sentient holograms and this whole oppression thing. And the Doctor always in the middle, taking sides, than seeing how he was wrong.
First off, when they created Moriaty it was a "technical glitch" caused by a slip of the tongue. You could already argue how the Enterprise computer created a sentient, self-aware hologramm. But it's scifi so you let it stand.
Than they created the EMH, which makes sense. A computer programm, meant to do certain tasks, put into a holo matrix. But, you just leave it running long enough, give it some subroutines and memory, and it magically develops a personality. And now we discover sentient or self aware hologramms everywhere.
With the Doctor it is the quest to find humanity, much like they did with Data. I can get behind that. The rest is just ridiculous and serves no real purpose. And a religious, fanatic hologram who sees himself as some kind of Messiah ? That's going overboard.
The positives of this story is that we again pick up consequences of Janeways actions because everything that happened here comes out of her decisions. I was actually surprised how they talked about how often they gave away replicator tech and stuff. I thought that was a absolute no-go.
In any case, you could probably do another seven season show that just deals with those kind of consequences.
You know, I'd actually watch that.loading replies
I agree, when she said we’ve given away replicators I was thinking, um when did you do that?? Also haven’t they figured out yet that holograms mimicking sentience is not sentience., the programs are just really advanced so it looks like sentience, but it’s not.
This was the most intriguing show I have seen in a while. I absolutely enjoyed every second. The whole concept of the story is great. At times it reminded me of "Life on Mars" which I also loved to watch. Great cast altogether. Personally I am satisfied with the ending it gives a form of closure but also leaves something open to imagination. I guess it would have been a different ending had it not been cancelled.
I don't understand why people can turn in to crap reality shows each and every week yet you didn't find enough viewers for really good story telling.loading replies
@finfan i love the casting in this also, and maybe this was a rhetorical statement of "i dont understand", but. ..... i think reality tv is cheaper, in a lot of ways, so many less important people to pay? Im guessing this part. Producers, casting directors, the actors, writers, directors etc.... And then the money for scenes.... You likely have so much less overhead for most reality shows - there isn't much to them. Yeah they have some of these things, but they aren't the same - not by a mile
sadly most people want to turn off their brain when watching a lot of tv - and 98% of "reality" tv is extremely low-effort watching trash... On the other hand I understand why it might also be difficult to always tune in to something like this (Awake) - exhaustion (lol), being a parent/inability to devote all of their attention so they are able to understand what's happening, etc.
I know at least for me, I have chronic pain which is often so severe that it makes it too hard to think - and the many different meds one has to take in this situation dull your cognitive abilities on top of that. So even when I really really enjoy a show like this (and I do), it's difficult to keep up with it every time, and - it's the kind of show where it's easy to forget what's been going on if you take even a small break from it, just because there's so much going on. I still prefer this any day over most reality garbage though.
Just thought I might offer some reasons... Other than people's heads being full of nothing but air, which quite obviously a large amount of them are :person_shrugging:
Episode was OK, although at times I wasn't sure if this is pro or anti PC.
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It's like when some people watch The Boys and root for Homelander, thinking he's the hero. Good satire walks that line well.
Just let me get two things out of the way I think were weak storytelling.
First, putting the drive on the hub was the stupidest thing to do as it could only lead to her getting caught. It also was illogical as it was clear that they would just override it and/or claim it as false. Granted she didn't know about the Janitor room but she knew there was surveilance everywhere and because of that might reach the conclusion that all those feeds had to be watched somewhere. But the story needs to go on so I'll take it.
Second, its hard to believe that they didn't inspect the stuff they brought to Juliette or they would have found the note. Even not knowing what it meant they would not have let it through. Plus, from a storyelling point of view it was giving too much away. Would have been better to not show it. Instead they could insert a scene when Juliette is about to break down to explain that she didn't die. And speaking of dying, Where are all the others that went out? Does someone actually go out to collect the bodies ?
Now, for the big reveal at the end I have to say I didn't see that coming. After making us believe (and I did) that it is safe outside, not only do we learn it is not, but there are literally dozens of silos out there. Does that mean the whole of mankind lives underground ? My guess is that each one thinks they are the only one and each one does have someone taking care that it stays like that. But we still don't have an idea about why ?
There is one thing I noticed that I want to point out. When Juliette told Holland about the door below he seem genuinely surprised. As if he didn't knew. That was the moment he ended the conversation. Just saying.
So, I don't know the books but from reading elsewhere I understand we barely scratched the surface of the story. I wonder how slow they will go with this one. The second season is already confirmed but thre is always the chance of not getting a third, or forth, or however many they need to play this out.
I sure hope we're not getting left hanging in the air atsome point.
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@great_vc Definitely right ! He didn't know for sure !
This is not the way... this is the destination. This is new-generation Star Wars at its finest.
David Filoni is living his best life.
Can you imagine if Filoni had been in charge of Obi-Wan? Maybe they would have bothered to de-age Hayden that time.
I cannot wait to see the reactions to this one (Kyle Katarn is going to have a conniption fit), and I cannot wait to laugh at all the low ratings and negative comments. Wonder what straws they're going to grasp at this time...
Edit: Personal attacks it is. :expressionless:
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@aeronmelon It's really interesting that your comment praising this episode have no mention of anything about the story, other than they deaged an actor. Instead the bulk of it is about strawmaning everyone who dare to criticize it.
Tells a lot about the quality of the story of the episode and the biases of the people praising it. :)
Sabine getting stabbed by lightsaber: I am fine, tis but a flesh wound.
Ahsoka on top of ship in space: This is fine, I am going to do some acrobatic jumps in space, fall back on the ship and prevent the enemy from blowing us up using my lightsabers.
Ahsoka falling on the ocean: Well, I am dead... Time for some memberberries and time travelling!loading replies
@FinFan Yeah I get what you mean. I myself am not a fan of all the cop out Star Wars is doing. It completely removes any impact of the deaths. However, I don’t think they’ll bring back Anakin from the dead. They’re probably just going to have an inspirational conversation and call it a day. It’s also possible that Ahsoka only ended up there after falling off the cliff because she was originally saved in the World between Worlds. Maybe it actually is closed but not for her
Lame. I regret that I stuck with this show.
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We regret that you stuck with this show too.
Really love this show. Just finished watching the whole thing again.
This is not only great comedy, this is about the people, their life and everyday problems. There arent't a lot of sitcoms you can watch more than once, this is definately one. And if you haven't watched it, well - what are you wating for ?loading replies
@finfan it's on Disney Plus now over here.
The action sequence was running a bit long but otherwise another solid episode.
I'm surprised there wasn't another way to relieve the steam pressure. Was that just a story tool to generate tension? You would think the builders would incorporate a way to make repairs in case they are needed. Otherwise they were either pretty sure the generator would run forever or they never anticipated it runs so long. Weird.
Did you notice the moment they switched to the back-up the screen showed a healthy, green environment outside ? No coincidence I say.
Bernard is hiding something, he is a much more important player in the tale. Unfortunately I was sure the moment the major opened up to the deputy her clock was running out.loading replies
@finfan The tension building part was how even though Juliette was spraying the water which immediately cooled down the steam it somehow doesn't continue working later on even though all the water she's spraying is still exactly the same as before, plus when they released the steam how quickly the pressure dropped but how slowly the turbine accelerated means they could've just released steam in bursts to keep the pressure steady, or even jam the turbine while the steam is open just a crack, etc. But remember, this has never been done, so nobody had any training, and nobody was thinking clearly either (so I'll forgive the fact Juliette told her shadow that he knows what to do, even though neither of them have ever touched that part of the generator before lol)
One thing is for sure: it was f***ing tense.
Just let me get two things out of the way I think were weak storytelling.
First, putting the drive on the hub was the stupidest thing to do as it could only lead to her getting caught. It also was illogical as it was clear that they would just override it and/or claim it as false. Granted she didn't know about the Janitor room but she knew there was surveilance everywhere and because of that might reach the conclusion that all those feeds had to be watched somewhere. But the story needs to go on so I'll take it.
Second, its hard to believe that they didn't inspect the stuff they brought to Juliette or they would have found the note. Even not knowing what it meant they would not have let it through. Plus, from a storyelling point of view it was giving too much away. Would have been better to not show it. Instead they could insert a scene when Juliette is about to break down to explain that she didn't die. And speaking of dying, Where are all the others that went out? Does someone actually go out to collect the bodies ?
Now, for the big reveal at the end I have to say I didn't see that coming. After making us believe (and I did) that it is safe outside, not only do we learn it is not, but there are literally dozens of silos out there. Does that mean the whole of mankind lives underground ? My guess is that each one thinks they are the only one and each one does have someone taking care that it stays like that. But we still don't have an idea about why ?
There is one thing I noticed that I want to point out. When Juliette told Holland about the door below he seem genuinely surprised. As if he didn't knew. That was the moment he ended the conversation. Just saying.
So, I don't know the books but from reading elsewhere I understand we barely scratched the surface of the story. I wonder how slow they will go with this one. The second season is already confirmed but thre is always the chance of not getting a third, or forth, or however many they need to play this out.
I sure hope we're not getting left hanging in the air atsome point.
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And speaking of dying, Where are all the others that went out? Does someone actually go out to collect the bodies ?
From what I understood, the image on the helmet (and not on the silo's screens) is digitally manipulated, meaning they're all still there, as dead as they can be, just like we see on the silo's screens. Juliette seemed to have felt a body right before she left the previous sheriff's star on the "ground" (you can clearly see the distortion in the image), assuming it was his body, maybe by recalling the approximate location of where he fell when he went out cleaning.
I think something in the suit is keeping Juliette alive, unlike the others (is it the tape?), but most likely not for long (the air doesn't look breathable out there). Which leaves me very, very curious to see how will she stay alive in the second season's premiere.
I also wonder where does that door below lead to, as the final scene didn't seem to show any sort of alternative exit (which was what I assume that door would be, an exit out of the silo). I'm guessing it's a door to other silos.
Just let me get two things out of the way I think were weak storytelling.
First, putting the drive on the hub was the stupidest thing to do as it could only lead to her getting caught. It also was illogical as it was clear that they would just override it and/or claim it as false. Granted she didn't know about the Janitor room but she knew there was surveilance everywhere and because of that might reach the conclusion that all those feeds had to be watched somewhere. But the story needs to go on so I'll take it.
Second, its hard to believe that they didn't inspect the stuff they brought to Juliette or they would have found the note. Even not knowing what it meant they would not have let it through. Plus, from a storyelling point of view it was giving too much away. Would have been better to not show it. Instead they could insert a scene when Juliette is about to break down to explain that she didn't die. And speaking of dying, Where are all the others that went out? Does someone actually go out to collect the bodies ?
Now, for the big reveal at the end I have to say I didn't see that coming. After making us believe (and I did) that it is safe outside, not only do we learn it is not, but there are literally dozens of silos out there. Does that mean the whole of mankind lives underground ? My guess is that each one thinks they are the only one and each one does have someone taking care that it stays like that. But we still don't have an idea about why ?
There is one thing I noticed that I want to point out. When Juliette told Holland about the door below he seem genuinely surprised. As if he didn't knew. That was the moment he ended the conversation. Just saying.
So, I don't know the books but from reading elsewhere I understand we barely scratched the surface of the story. I wonder how slow they will go with this one. The second season is already confirmed but thre is always the chance of not getting a third, or forth, or however many they need to play this out.
I sure hope we're not getting left hanging in the air atsome point.
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There is one thing I noticed that I want to point out. When Juliette told Holland about the door below he seem genuinely surprised. As if he didn't knew. That was the moment he ended the conversation. Just saying.
Yeah i catch that too. I think you are right about this one.
