This penultimate episode of season one was fantastic! The storytelling is clearly at it's best this season. Can't wait for next weeks finale!
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@agent24 Storytelling at its best? Yeah, let's terraform a moon within two minutes to regrow the mycelium-forest wich would otherwise take years. Also let's tell everybody that the Evil Empress from the mirror universe is the somehow resurrected Captain Georgiou and let's make her command the Discovery for real. What could possibly go wrong? Is there nobody talking to each other? There were regular crew members present in the transporter room when Burnham and Georgiou beamed over. Why would you tell everybody she's somebody else??? Storytelling de luxe for sure.
Fair detective movie based on (or inspired by) true story but to be honest I don't understand so high rating on many webs. There is no special mysterious plot or ending. Classic detective movie with dark atmosphere. The movie had definitely more potential and could be better but still solid one. You won't be disappointed. Just don't expect anything mysterious about that.
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@finfan I don't know. For me it was very straightforward. I expected some deeper plot with something more extraordinary than "ordinary" murder by bunch of drunk guys. I have seen many better detective movies and that's also the fact why I can't go for more than 7 points score.
This was an action filled episode. Production wise this is great. If their is one point of criticism - hire a new fight choreographer. And what about Jason Isaac ? Will we now see the other Lorca ? Just when I thought I had a vague idea where this is going they throw everything out of the window. This I did not see coming. Whole episode was full of what-the-heck moments. Question still remains what is the main universe they are in because with that reveal at the end their is no way you can tie this into Trek Prime. And this is the main drive for me - how does this fit into Star Trek canon ? Could be worse. But I must add I also enjoy the writing more and more. At least they come up with bold ideas and judging from how the Mirror Universe part was layed out in preperation for this I have confidence the writers to have a bigger picture.
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@finfan I hope to see the other Lorca too, also because I really like Jason Isaac as an actor.
I am not a Star Trek expert, I saw the original series and Voyager. I enjoyed them both and I understand that some fans find this new series very different from the original, but I am liking it so far. The "I am better than you" behavior, typical from USA TV Series is almost gone from all characters and I am enjoying these episodes.
So, I guess I was right about Lorca all along. But again they made the reveal at the right time because I don't think this would have been holding up much longer.
At roughly 38 min this was a short one if you take into account credits and previously scenes. This is more of a bridge episode anyway and because the end didn't surprise me it raised more questions than it hold answers. Burnham had to reveal herself but she showed her hand to fast I think. I'm sure that will come back to bite her. Personally I also would have liked to have Tyler gone but I guess you can kill only so much of your cast in one season ;-)
One thing I wonder after this episode is what the long term future of the show could be. What if they fix the spore network and deal with Lorca and his plans? Because you cannot drag those plots out over a couple of seasons. Or do they go back to their (alternate ?) universe and deal with the Klingons ? We'll see, I'm in for the duration.
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@finfan Your second paragraph left me even more excited! I'm rooting for it to be a Mirror Universe show, that sounds like fun and will give the writers more wiggle room, I'd say. Things seem to be falling into place much better now, so, yes, I have to agree with you, the writers do appear to have it all properly planned since the beginning, which makes that comment from the show's producer that you mentioned in the last week's episode much more believable.
It makes sense that evil Stamets (I call him "evil" because I'm pretty sure he's mischievous and also the "ghost" of the doctor - good Stamets' boyfriend - mentioned that evil Stamets deserves to be locked in whatever the hell that place is) helped evil Lorca (yes, I find it fun to name everyone from the Mirror Universe "evil", because that's what they all are, so far) cross over to "our" universe. But, if that's the case, it puzzles me why evil Stamets didn't cross himself as well (and everyone else on the same vessel he was in). But this is all mere speculation, anyway. And it's always fun to speculate (though one needs to take it easy, otherwise too much speculation can lead to disappointment).
Also, I couldn't agree more with your last sentence, though it's not the show we wanted, the more it approaches the season finale the more fun it gets! It's a pity that it's about to end right after starting to actually be good... It'll be a long wait till season 2. And there's always The Orville for some good, classic, Star Trek fun!
So, I guess I was right about Lorca all along. But again they made the reveal at the right time because I don't think this would have been holding up much longer.
At roughly 38 min this was a short one if you take into account credits and previously scenes. This is more of a bridge episode anyway and because the end didn't surprise me it raised more questions than it hold answers. Burnham had to reveal herself but she showed her hand to fast I think. I'm sure that will come back to bite her. Personally I also would have liked to have Tyler gone but I guess you can kill only so much of your cast in one season ;-)
One thing I wonder after this episode is what the long term future of the show could be. What if they fix the spore network and deal with Lorca and his plans? Because you cannot drag those plots out over a couple of seasons. Or do they go back to their (alternate ?) universe and deal with the Klingons ? We'll see, I'm in for the duration.
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@finfan you were right about Lorca being from the Mirror Universe! I just finished the episode, I was in awe when they revealed that! To me, this was the most exciting episode of the season, so far. I'm guessing we'll be stuck in the Mirror Universe for a while (maybe forever?) and Lorca will become the main villain. What a twist! How did Lorca ended up in the "regular" universe? Either I missed something or they have yet to explain it.
I have a feeling that evil Stamets will fuck up the mycelial network and thus prevent the Discovery to go back to their own universe. Man, this episode left me all pumped up, can't wait for next week!
So, how about doing just normal x-files episodes and forget about the big mystery ?
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@finfan Cause Chris Carter sure like his mythos (even though it quickly became a tedious monster for which he can clearly not find a fitting end.) Cancerman should have died a long time ago and the recent revelations with Scully only make me shudder.
@Chris Carter - Bring back Millennium instead, the (end-)times are right for that as long as you keep your writing in the hands of talent.
Ooooh, that twist at the end, what an exciting revelation! Now we finally know who the Emperor is... And, of course, it had to be a familiar face. Discovery is shaping itself to become more and more like a soap opera in space rather than another Star Trek series. BUT (and that's a big butt) I am not complaining about it. In fact, I'm excitingly enjoying all these plot twists as they come along.
We have to be honest, there isn't much of the core Trek philosophy here (if any, at all), the Roddenberry legacy is hardly recognizable... But this show sure is becoming fun as hell! And I'm in for the whole ride!
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@finfan oh, the things you let me know... Either Kurtzman is following an ingenious master plan or he's just teasing us. I don't think Trek fans are the patient kind, but since I'm in for the whole show, I'm curious to see how will they make Discovery canon. Because that spore drive before Kirk sure is bugging me a lot. It's stuff like that (and the shiny special effects) that makes me wish they would have done a post-Voyager show, instead. But I digress.
I miss the space exploration and the consequential moral dilemmas that arise from that, when taking action (or taking no action at all) involving other civilizations. That's a cornerstone of the very Star Trek essence, I would say. I haven't seem much of that in Discovery. It's mostly a measuring dick contest between Klingons and Humans. Am I digressing again? Sorry, I tend to get carried away.
I guess if Discovery gets stuck in the Mirror Universe, they would have more wiggle room to incorporate the show in the Star Trek series. But, as I've mentioned to you before, I'm not familiar with the Mirror Universe and you already said there are rules set for it.
I'm not a hardcore Trek fan, I've always enjoyed every other Trek show I've watched from the very first episode of it (except DS9 - please don't hate me), but Discovery left me feeling confused because it looks like the show I'm fond of, but it doesn't feel like it. Nonetheless, regarding the apparent absence of the Star Trek essence, I'm starting to enjoy Discovery very much and I've been eager for the next episode. The Mirror Universe and the plot twists derived from it have been keeping things interesting.
About your last sentence... The movies did exactly that, but I still feel it wasn't in a good way. We'll just have to wait and see what will they do with this show.
Again, apologies for the rambling and thanks for letting me know that the producer wants us to bear with the show. Which I will.
Not a reader of the comics and from that premiere I am not sure why I should continue watching this. First, I feel like I´ve just watched an episode of Beverly Hills 90210 and second those characters are overly cliched in both looks and behaviour.
But I'll always say to never judge a show by one episode so I'll at least watch another one.loading replies
@finfan yes, I think only Inhumans got the axe (a show I've never bothered with, because it's in the same universe as the bland Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.). I'll give this one a spin whenever I find myself with nothing to watch (so, probably in a million years, ahah!). Who knows? Maybe I'll like it. You should check The Gifted, if you haven't already. That's a good show about mutants. At least I enjoy it a lot more than MAoS.
Not a reader of the comics and from that premiere I am not sure why I should continue watching this. First, I feel like I´ve just watched an episode of Beverly Hills 90210 and second those characters are overly cliched in both looks and behaviour.
But I'll always say to never judge a show by one episode so I'll at least watch another one.loading replies
@finfan I still have a bunch of episodes of this show to watch, but I haven't got around it yet because I prefer The Gifted, so I kept this one in the backlog. After reading your comment I think I'll leave this show there for a little longer.
"Directed by Jonathan Frakes". Attaboy! You show 'em how it's done, Riker!
I actually like where this is heading, with all the Nazi-like humans. Sure, it's a cliché, an alternate universe where humans are a ruthless, merciless race, but it's still fun. Bonus: by having the story moved to an alternate universe, I can stop worrying that this doesn't feel like Star Trek, because it doesn't have to, now. That being said, I like where this sci-fi show is heading, it's definitely popcorn worthy.
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@finfan ah, that explains my lack of knowledge regarding said Mirror Universe: I've watched TOS too long ago to remember it properly, I never liked DS9 so I never finished it and I still haven't watched Enterprise (I keep forgetting about that one!). Thank Heaven that Discovery isn't connected to the Kelvin timeline.
Cheers for enlightening me in the Trek ways, old friend :)
"Directed by Jonathan Frakes". Attaboy! You show 'em how it's done, Riker!
I actually like where this is heading, with all the Nazi-like humans. Sure, it's a cliché, an alternate universe where humans are a ruthless, merciless race, but it's still fun. Bonus: by having the story moved to an alternate universe, I can stop worrying that this doesn't feel like Star Trek, because it doesn't have to, now. That being said, I like where this sci-fi show is heading, it's definitely popcorn worthy.
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@finfan but maybe they are in a totally different one entirely, indeed. Honestly, we don't know, yet. But I'm not that familiar with the Mirror Universe (is that related to the Kelvin timeline of the movies? So many universes and timeliness makes my brain hurt), hence my previous comment, I was unaware it was something already established in the Star Trek cannon. But I'll definitely cut them some slack from now on, as long as they're there.
Hated it.
As simple as that.
Terrible way to take the series to. I mean it's not as bad as the prequels, because the acting is quite all right, but it hits so many bullshit moments where I was facepalming every other scene it's unbelievable.loading replies
@dannyland Chewie is the last character that ties the ”old” with the upcoming ”new”. And after reading some articles I agree, killing Leia's character in this one would be the easiest, albeit a poor choice.
What was awful? Let's see if I can compile a shortlist.
Useless characters: Phasma (why even bother?), Del Toro's ”hacker”, porgs (yes, I am not a fan of those).
Downplay of Rey's whole motivation in TFA (I mean seriously, even if Kylo's explanation was true, it was delivered in such a horrible way). Also first rule of movies: show, don't tell.
Snoke? The fuck happened there? Played like a child by two angsty teens. No back story, no forward story — introduced a a massive, powerful character, overshadowing Kylo and Hux just to have him killed via a cheap force trick. This just doesn't sit right with me.
Speaking of Hux — I felt like I was watching a kid from '80s sitcom, to be honest. The scene with Snoke scolding Hux while being a hologram? It was right from ”That '70s show”. I know it was to re-establish the ability to use force on long distances just to ease the disbelief later on, but why? Why?
Also Kylo's ”rise” to power was so obvious it was painful.
And while we're at it — I loved Kylo in TFA: pissed off kid with so much power to abuse, and so much conflicting thoughts. In TLJ he turns into this whiny spoiled emo brat Vader-wannabe. Even Snoke acknowledges it when he tells him to take his stupid mask off.
Also apparently you can transfer matter through space and time via force (Kylo's wet glove).
Jedi ghost can now manipulate real weather all of a sudden. And yeah, I know TFA intruduced the ability to stop laser shots midair, but this is just so ex machina thing.
Lack of comminication breeds conflict — just look at the whole Poe-Holdo situation. A simple explanation would release the tension and fix the problem, but no, we need ”conflict” between allies to... Exactly what?
The whole casino thing, such a wasted time. I know what the wanted to achieve, but it just didn't work for me. That whole story arc around the ”hacker” was such a waste of time.
And don't even get me started on the whole Star Wars School of Planning Attacks. ”We are overwhelemed, we got only buckets with skis (why?), let's attack these giant machines head on.”
Hated it.
As simple as that.
Terrible way to take the series to. I mean it's not as bad as the prequels, because the acting is quite all right, but it hits so many bullshit moments where I was facepalming every other scene it's unbelievable.loading replies
@dannyland Look, I get it, Disney wanted a clear horizon for the next installments. They killed off all the main characters, Carrie Fisher died in reality, so they need to kill her off somehowe between this and IX, they should kill Chewie, destroy the Falcon and send the droids to some junkyard and that'll give them a clean slate to build next trilogy on.
I LOVED TFA, watched it in every format I could in cinemas, and just yesterday I went for a special screening of TFA before TLJ and I loved every second of the first one just to have my hopes crashed in the next. Everybody's allowed to have an opinion and that's just mine. I love me some Star Wars, don't get me wrong, but this was just too much.
Hated it.
As simple as that.
Terrible way to take the series to. I mean it's not as bad as the prequels, because the acting is quite all right, but it hits so many bullshit moments where I was facepalming every other scene it's unbelievable.loading replies
@jokes-senpai Well, it was a lost cause after the Leia scene, so you're right.
Superb! This was Star Trek - sorry - The Orville at its finest!
The Orville already had a couple of episodes lingering around moral dilemmas, à la Star Trek, and now there's this great space exploration episode, also akin to the good old Star Trek style.
This show has exceeded all expectations, I truly hope it gets renewed for a second season.loading replies
@finfan I was unware. Great news, then! Thanks for letting me know about it!
The more I watched of this whole franchise the less I wanted to continue. I guess it´s just not for me. Not everything can be.
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@finfan the third film and toughest to keep it up and not feel like it was a stretch
You look for serious sci-fi ? Move along. I was out of this movie about 45 min in.
Should have been out earlier about around when they caught a capsule moving thousands of mph with a grappling arm without breaking anything. Yep, that is the level of science here. More ?
- Rampaging with some kind of a flamethrower in a laboratory without damaging anything.
- how much coolant can there be in a spacesuit ?
- can an organism lay dormant for what might possibly be millions of years and then develop into a complex lifeform ? Of that I´m not certain.
Then there is the typical illogical behavior of the characters that is nessessary to propel the plot. And the CGI for that alien is bad, you always recognize it as beeing CGI. Which is weird because the rest looks pretty good. And the end ? As if nobody saw that coming. They need to prepare a sequelloading replies
@finfan Don't forget the completely lacking characterisation - apart from the dude with the wasted legs - there was virtually none at all in the movie. There appeared to be a lot of characters - none of whose names I could remember let alone care about when they died. And the ending - way too obvious. (I just won't mention the whole movie being riddled with plot devices that breaks the idea of 'real' science and technology being in use. If the makers wanted to do stuff like that then make a film like that - pure fantasy - trying to make it look like real-life and then breaking all the rules doesn't work.
It‘s good sci-fi. It‘s not Star Trek. Almost funny how Seth McFarlane‘s Orville is at its core closer to the values and themes of the original Star Trek than Discovery.
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@misnomer That‘s EXACTLY what I mean. The latest Orville episode with the up and down votes was classic Trek storytelling. No special effects, no space battles, no time loops just an alien civilization that with its own customs and traditions stands as a metaphor for our society right now. People who think of Orville as just a comedy show have either never seen it or are not paying attention. It is pure Trek.
I was a bit surprised to see that there aren´t any comments for this show positive or negative.
If you can overlook the total disregard for realism in key parts to serve the dramatization you can say it´s entertaining. But that disregard, for me, took the seriousness out of the show. And quite honestly I wanted to quit after the first season but went on only because it was a short running show.
So, what about the realism ? Well, just some of the problems with the show:- Right at the beginning they parachute into enemy territory in broad daylight. Right there was the first moment I chuckled. In general, going in and out of the occupied territories in Europe seems to be as easy as buying a ticket and going there.
- Realtime radio communication from all over Europe to Canada with a suitcase radio and a short cable as an antenna that at best came a few meters high. That is realism sacrified for dramatization.
- There is also no reality in relation to time and space. Remember this is 1942. You don´t travel from France to Canada in a day, yet this happened repeatedly that they send characters on that journey.
- One specific thing that almost made me laugh was at the beginning of season two. They stopped a Tiger tank with an outside explosion (c4?) that in real life would barely scratch the paint. That armor couldn´t be cracked by allied tanks until late in the war. Yes, they said they wanted to explode under the tank but they didn´t. And that aside, the characters should have been done right there. You approach a Tiger tank on the open field with small arms and you´re done.Some other things:
- Some of the uniforms looked cheap. I don´t know why but the looked like Helloween costumes. Althought I just noticed it at the beginning.
- Season 1 had no suspense because it was clear from the first episode what would happend in the last and what the cliffhanger would be. Way to predictable.
- Why have there always be those kind of back and forth romances ?
- There were huge story gaps at times and some of the things that did happen where downright unbelievable and the behavior of the characters at times stupid.
- I guess the fact that the germans stopped speaking German was a concession to the english (speaking) audience. I actually liked that because it added realism that they speak their language when amongst themselves.
- Bringing the Fabers in never really worked out. It was too much back and forth as thought the writers never seemed to know what to do with them and the end felt a bit forced.
I know it is a lot of criticism and in TV you have to sacrifies something to make a show, any show, work. But there are certain levels you have to acchieve if you are making a show that is based in reality. Alltogether the show never created the urge to want to watch the next episode. There where good moments when the show dealt with harsh things that happened during those years in history. But as mentioned above there are to many negatives in the setup for me.loading replies
@finfan Thanks for this review, FinFan. I was considering a run at this series, proud Canadian that I am, but I think I'll give it a pass. I scrubbed through the pilot episode and it seems like 'Occupied France 80210' with bonus autism. Not that there is anything at all wrong with autism, when it's not being used as sensory gift that borders on the magical.
After realising it´s been a good 15 years that I´ve watched TNG I decided it´s time again. Yes, the first season is far removed from what the show went on to become and I remember when they originally aired I rejected it. I couldn´t come to grips with the characters and some of the first scripts were awful. But everything turned around and it became one of the best shows (not only in the genre) ever made.
I still only own the DVD version, I´m not a huge friend of all that remastering. I´m sure it looks and sounds better but I like to experience it the way it was originally done.
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@finfan The remastering is amazing it's some of the best i have ever seen. The color and sharpness are hugely upgraded. You see need to see those difference videos on youtube or pictures. Trust me hardly anything was changed from the original except the original colors of how the show was actually made in real life come through hugely more. The purplish hue from season 1 is gone and more the more natural color comes through. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW8s-JUhtiw - http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/observations/tng-r-changes.htm - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlklrWYsDLY
Usually I like Ricky and his style of humor. I love "Extras" but I really struggled through this one. I only finished it because there are only 6 hours in total without the Christmas Special.
It had its moments but in an attempt to make this look like they are doing kind of a documentary on the office staff it feels stiff and studied. Characters are one-dimensional and there is almost no developement. Personally I can`t figure out why this is so highly praised.loading replies
@finfan "Characters are one-dimensional and there is almost no developement. Personally I can`t figure out why this is so highly praised"
My thoughts exactly.
I loved this movie when I was a kid. Somethings should stay in the past
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I disagree... This movie is a classic like the original Tron. I still appreciate it for it's 80's appeal. Yea, a little corny and yea, the special effects do not rival Transformers, but still a great flick from it's day. Hell, I still like the Godzilla movies from the 60's and you can REALLY say those were bad... :-)
I´ll admit that was way better then I anticipated. They have a lot of possibilities going forward. Hopefully the war theme won´t take to much center stage because Star Trek is about more than action and battles. But I´m looking positively forward .
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@finfan Yeah all action and battles is more like how the Chris Pine movies are. Still, I like it too.
Please don't suck, please don't suck, please don't suck...
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@genetai It's what fans of Trek in general have been thinking since the dark days of pre-Manny Coto Enterprise. I'd kill for DS9 levels of storytelling but I'll settle for TNG S01 quality. As long as it nukes the whole Kelvin-timeline fiasco I'm a happy bunny. :)
They really messed up the Ryan movie franchise with this one.
I think this also is the movie that made me dislike Affleck. But that´s not the reason for the mess up. By choosing Affleck to play Ryan and since he´s obviously much younger than Harison Ford, they needed to place the story before the previous movies. So they do what Hollywood likes to do alot: a reboot. They just picked out one of Clancys books for this (interestingly the one after "Clear and Present Danger") not caring for anything else but to cash in, which because of the laurels of the previous ones they did. And they changed so many things from the book it´s hardly recognizable.
Here we see a young Ryan who isn´t married yet and, of course, has no children. That produces continuity errors within the movies which is why I hate reboots. That is the main reason the story didn´t work in this movie for me.
But the movie itself was bad. It jumps through the plot like a kangaroo and it is incoherent. Although the cast reads good on paper the performances are all but forgettable.And some notes about the summary of the movie here:
- 27,000 nuclear weapons. One is missing: wrong, it was a bomb from the Yom-Kipur-War and even in the movie no one missed it after the plane was shot down at the beginning.
- Jack Ryan discovers that an Islamic terrorist group is constructing a nuclear warhead: wrong again. It´s was a facist group led by an Austrian Neo-Nazi.loading replies
@finfan You are right, the movie's description was entirely wrong. Fixed that on themoviedb.org (trakt's data source) by using the plot summary from IMDB instead.
Still, the movie's plot and many characters remain totally unbelievable. ;)
